Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Alright, what do we have for now.
The most agreed option is that there should be 2 meta-categories, that can be definitely found out for any given run. Objectively. Then there should be a level above those that represents the best, cherry-picked runs. Depending on the size of those 3, we can leave them fit the current system code-wise: don't remove "tiers", maybe even keep the name, but rename some of them, and move runs around to settle forever.
Then, how it's judged.
Language: c
int JudgeMovie()
{
if (SubOptimal)
return Reject();
if (any% || 100%)
return Accept(Coins);
else
if (Boring)
return Reject();
else
return Accept(Moons);
}
How it's points are calculated: Whatever dunnius wrote, except that stars still need to give a higher score.
My question still remains:
- Should borderline + side-goal runs be accepted with hopes they are "entertaining enough'?
What will be good as well, if agreed about:
- Adding a NEW flag (shouting RATE ME on mouse hover) to attract more attention of raters.
- Option to hide away movies below a given rating. Say I hate runs that have 5-, someone hates all below 8, etc.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
The hardest wave is when all enemies are shadow lords. After that it's not "more difficult" anymore. Because if we consider seeing the first shadow lord a final point, I can spawn one in the very first wave (just by not picking the eggs), which makes no sense.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
gui.register( function ()
local pos = memory.readword(0xFF12C0)
local spd = memory.readbytesigned(0xFF12C5)
gui.text(10,40,"X Speed: "..spd)
gui.text(10,50,"X Posit: "..pos)
end)
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
dwangoAC wrote:
after a fair bit of twiddling I was able to get the movie file to console verify.
Oh god can you make a video?!
Otherwise, is there a possibility to strip lag frames out of the verification movie and make it feed input only when there's a poll?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
synnchan: how would I know? If you don't want people to assume wrong, add to your signature a hint about it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
ALAKTORN wrote:
Yeah, you haven’t read the topic. synnchan isn’t talking about normal TASing
synnchan wrote:
How can I .avi dump with mame-rr? I can't find this option there.
synnchan wrote:
It shows EVERYTHING on the encode including when and where you loaded the states.
No, he surely isn't.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
ALAKTORN wrote:
feos wrote:
/me fails to see the connection between loading savestates and how they should not be in a video capture.
Have you not read the topic?
Have you never encoded your TAS?
I just tried it out and got a great video capture out of an input file I recorded with a bunch of savesloads (yes, in mame-rr).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
/me fails to see the connection between loading savestates and how they should not be in a video capture.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Tested the first level (in Bizhawk). Gen+ has different lag, but pure 1st room difference is 13 frames.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/18153571107357575
This submission misses the trick where different jumping before the spinning wood thing allows you to get different X position boost. Maximum I had is 22 pixels per frame. In this submission, it's only about 12 ppf.
X position address is $FFE404.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
grassini wrote:
just stop separating the lists for games with vault runs and moons stars
It serves the purpose of separating their rules: we can accept an unlimited amount of runs we find enjoyable, but what's the point in removing the limit for boring ones? Making the site content more boring?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Press TAB and search for its hotkey. Also, read the docs.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Ferret Warlord wrote:
What good would renaming do if the intent behind the tier is the same? That's like the Democratic People's Republic of Korea trying to pass itself off as not a dictatorship.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
r57shell wrote:
feos wrote:
It's about how less if's != better.
Nope, your question was: "is it simple". I said "not". I didn't say anything about what is better. Anyway, if all other criteria are same then less if's = better.
Don't you use absolute terms here. It's never "plain simple", it's never "not simple". It's only "simple enough", and "simpler than something". It's a subjective thing, and I respect it by simplifying it more (but not to the absurd degree). Most people in this thread remember how "simple" it was when it all started:
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13395r57shell wrote:
feos wrote:
We tried to define criteria to publish "interesting" runs. It can't be defined.
Simple criteria: poll "should it be published".
That's exactly what I'm suggesting, and I explained why and how it will work.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
r57shell wrote:
Is it argument or what? Anyway, with each additional "if" things become more complicated.
It's about how less if's != better. And it reduces dramatically the amount of if's involved in judging right now.
r57shell wrote:
"We tried". Tried to make tier? Did I said that you suppose to add tier? Why not just be able to accept "exceptions"? If they really bad, yes, you should reject it, as you always do.
We tried to define criteria to publish "interesting" runs. It can't be defined.
r57shell wrote:
So if you mean star - highest quality (not ideal) - then that scheme looks fine.
Whatever.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
It won't be published into moons, because it's not entertainment, and it's not speed run -> so it rejected. Yes I would accept any arbitrary goal for every possible game, if it's interesting, and high quality (very optimized... may be some more technical requirements). But, indeed, only if it does makes any sense. I don't care about inundating this site. If you look into not obsoleted runs - there are not so many of them.
> if it's interesting, and high quality
> interesting
...Now that I think about it, forget I said that. My point was that there could be things like Donkey Kong Country "ONG%" or Sonic the Hedgehog "all rings except for 394 of them" coming through, but I'm sure people would just ask for any really arbitrary categories not to be published.
As for everything else, fair enough. I don't think it's necessary for me to read the Judge Guidelines another time, though, especially when it's in response to a new system that might not even happen.
I linked it because we are currently dealing with all the questions you've posted very well. It's only a matter of how it's set up.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Samsara wrote:
I'm probably seriously overthinking this, to be honest.
Everything remains 100% the same in that regard:
Samsara wrote:
How would obsoletions be handled for things like playarounds?
Playarounds are obsoleted if more entertaining. They are side goals, aim for entertainment.
Samsara wrote:
Does this allow for more ROMhacks?
ROM hacks/howmebrews/bootlegs are "vaultable" if they have significance, then they are "coinable" on the same exact grounds - a speed record for a significant ROM hack/howmebrew/bootleg.
Samsara wrote:
If someone just makes up a brand new arbitrary category and people find it entertaining/optimal, does it still get published or does it have to have some sort of importance?
What?
Samsara wrote:
Would there be a limit on new categories for games?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Samsara wrote:
Warp wrote:
It seems to me that we may be reaching a consensus where the Vault tier will be renamed and the distinction between the new "Vault" and the Moon tiers will be changed to be about goals rather than about reception. So, in a sense, a big part of the current Moon runs will be merged to the "new Vault" (whatever its new name will be; "coins" seems to be a popular suggestion, but personally I find it a bit odd...) and the rest of the Moon runs will remain where they are.
Perhaps the poll options should reflect this possibility more clearly?
I think the "Rename Vault/change its appearance" reflects that possibility.
Speaking of, I kinda like that idea but I feel like it'd have to be really fleshed out to work: If the criteria is just "not any% or 100% for Moons" then how much would we be accepting? Would this be the (if my memory serves me correctly) often asked for Demo Tier/Playaround Tier or would it just follow the same criteria we have now? It wouldn't be like just renaming Vault to something more positive: It'd change the actual tiering system altogether, and if the guidelines and qualifications didn't change with it then I feel like it'd be somewhat arbitrary. A big step what I feel is the right direction, but still somewhat arbitrary.
Is this not fleshed out? It handles everything exactly as we do now, but removes all the hardship we're having. In other words, elaborate.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Warp wrote:
(Btw, I still think that the "star tier" should be special. It shouldn't be considered just a "better-than-Moon tier". Basically any TAS ought to be eligible for a star if it showcases something representative we want to show. Having extremely high ratings can (and will usually) overlap with the Star tier, but it's not a requirement. Not all highest-rated run will necessarily get a star, and not all star runs will necessarily be on the very top of the rating list.)
With tiers tied to goals it's what will happen. Fastest possible any% and 100% runs that are already starred will showcase that. BTW, then the system is no longer
(Stars)
ideal anything
/ \
(Coins) (Moons)
speed entertaining
records side goals
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
feos wrote:
Warp wrote:
Which gives me the idea: Change the tiers to "the any%/100% tier" and "the everything else tier". (I don't have good ideas for the actual names.)
I like it! Here we could finally throw away the scary Vault icon and replace it with
putting ALL any%/100% runs there, making it a real default tier, with Moons and Stars being moved to for good and superb entertainment value respectively. Another option is to move to Moons only all runs of of the side goals. Goal is indeed a non-arbitrary borderline!
This way we could return the old question: "Should this run be published?". It would just mean different things depending on the branch:
- If it's a speed record, people vote for its optimality
- If it's a side goal, people vote for both entertainment value and optimality.
Because if (and only if) a speed record is not optimal, it will be rejected. Otherwise go to Coins.
If a side goal is optimal but boring, it will be rejected. If a side goal is enjoyable but suboptimal, it will be rejected. Otherwise go to Moons.
Pretty simple, huh?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
LOVED THE RUN! LOVED THE ENDING! ALL WHO DISAGREE ARE PONIES!!!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Warp wrote:
Which gives me the idea: Change the tiers to "the any%/100% tier" and "the everything else tier". (I don't have good ideas for the actual names.)
I like it! Here we could finally throw away the scary Vault icon and replace it with
putting ALL any%/100% runs there, making it a real default tier, with Moons and Stars being moved to for good and superb entertainment value respectively. Another option is to move to Moons only all runs of of the side goals. Goal is indeed a non-arbitrary borderline!
Then, as a separate system, we can allow sorting by certain rating. So subjective stuff won't be mixed in and argued about. Unvaultable goals will still stand, entertainment value will still stand. All happy :D
EDIT:
"Coin" is awesome as well! All the tier system then can be described in a couple sentences with no option to get it wrong.
EDIT:
r57shell wrote:
RATE ME makes more sense yes, but if you think that two months old run is really old, then I can't say anything. I don't think that there are so many people who every day checking new publicaitons. If you will keep such runs with NEW tag, people who look once in two month would be able to check and watch them.
Agreeing now. Like, a "New" flag, that shows you a popup text "RATE ME!" when you hover at it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
putting ALL any%/100% runs there, making it a real default tier, with Moons and Stars being moved to for good and superb entertainment value respectively. Another option is to move to Moons only all runs of of the side goals. Goal is indeed a non-arbitrary borderline!
