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InputEvelution wrote:
I feel that Samsara's point regarding collaboration is particularly interesting. In cases where the person's submitted a movie for a game that isn't even on the site yet...why should we care so much about the state of the optimisation? Even if it's sub-optimal, they've put in more work than anyone else has so far for getting it on TASVideos. And even if one can demonstrate that the movie is unpolished, sub-optimal, etc., why not go and make some improvements to the movie yourself for a collaborative submission? No point complaining about a lack of effort from the submitter if you're not willing to put in the effort either.
This is absolutely an interesting point, and over the years quite a few submitters expected it to be the case, intuitively (and it wasn't). Level of required optimization may be worth another thread. My natural feeling is accepting things that both look sloppy and are sloppy, would feel anticlimactic to a lot of people who watch TASes. But if a run looks clean and quick, and optimization has been attempted at all, we may try being more lax.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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To clarify, I don't remember "submitting many movies quickly" being used as a reason to limit people. It happened a couple times, and we just ask them not to do that. The things I have personally revoked submission privs over are: 1) repeatedly breaking some fundamental movie rules (at the time), even after having been informed about it, and warned about getting limited if the trend continues, and 2) repeatedly submitting visibly suboptimal movies (that were also proven to be suboptimal by actual tests), ignoring advises and feedback, and continuing the trend despite the warnings. There hasn't been a defined system on having your privs restored, but it has usually been promised if a better movie is created and sent to staff to check. I was once or twice sent a movie, but it was either still easily improvable or non-trivial to check how optimal it is (2-player mame-rr movies). Then I came up with a suggestion for limited users to try improving an existing publication, which then would make it obvious their skill has improved, and the privs would be restored. It's a fair criticism that this system doesn't really encourage people to improve, because I don't remember restoring anyone's submission privs. And it's also true that nobody really gives feedback to userfiles, especially for games they don't know, so submissions are the only way for those users to get any kind of feedback at all. Another fair point is that for malicious activity, it doesn't make sense to limit (and I don't remember if we ever did), because the user would just get banned. Site atmosphere has changed dramatically over the last few years, so maybe there are better things to do when people repeatedly submit questionable stuff. Maybe dropping the rank entirely from the site is too soon, because we may happen to need it later, but I won't complain if currently limited users get their privs back.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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OtakuTAS wrote:
feos wrote:
Wait is it 12 hours or 128GB or 12 hours and 128GB?
Or. And it goes by the minimum, whichever you hit first. A really grainy 12 hour video that's 1 MB will trigger a rejection, and a 10 second 130GB video will trigger a rejection.
That's an "and" then. It has to be shorter than 12 hours AND smaller than 128GB.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Wait is it 12 hours or 128GB or 12 hours and 128GB?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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OtakuTAS wrote:
Since "anything" is accepted these days is there even a point to the voting system or discussion (aka "vote and discuss") anymore? Seems like game choice and entertainment are no longer considered, so it's just optimization I presume. Not trying to be sassy and it's hard to set tone through a keyboard, so a disclaimer that I'm genuinely curious. I do think this is worthy of acceptance due to the effort put in to making the bot.
We're thinking of changing it to something like submission rating, similar to pub rating, with ratings carrying over to the pub. Then it would be able to mean whatever you want to use it for, technical quality, or entertainment, or both, or something else.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Samsara wrote:
The quoted list looks good to me, although I'd even go as far as saying that avoiding glitches should be a universally standard category. It feels a little arbitrary to say that it's standard in some cases but not all of them.
Major skip glitch is usually big enough to allow some kind of community consensus, like "yeah we all agree that this is the glitch that we want to have both branches of, with and without it, because both feel common, traditional, and clear". For other kinds of glitches, which are usually smaller, and there's more of them, it's harder to draw a consensus-based line on which ones to avoid exactly. Unless you mean avoiding all glitches (which does feel standard eligible to me).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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So I'm judging this together with #8110: Spikestuff's Flash Arsenal in 01:31.36 and #8111: Spikestuff's Flash Sniper Assassin 3 in 02:12.80, and the problem with checking how FlashPlayer handles offscreen mouse activity is libTAS doesn't work with mouse in FlashPlayer very well. I asked keylie if it's feasible to fix, but didn't get a reply yet, and other, even simpler Flash games, seem to have the same problem with libTAS+FP. So far the argument has been that resizing the window and sending OOB mouse activity is not an intended feature for Flash games in their normal environment (web browser), but you can't really ignore the fact that the official launcher allows resizing (and possibly OOB mouse action too). So resizing it on the fly is still too standard to be banned, much like pressing cardinal directions on a NES controller. Sure it's very hard on an official controller. But there are also official controllers where it's easy. Not any less official: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Pad Same thing with OOB mouse input: if it's digitally possible and the game processes it fine, it's similar to SNES controller buttons present only in digital form, but not on the physical controller itself. So. I'm leaning towards simply fully allowing window resizing and OOB mouse input for Flash TASes.
  • If it results in a game breaking glitch, fine, we then can have a movie that uses it, and a movie that avoids it, both in Standard.
  • If it results in smaller glitches, we can have a movie that utilizes them in Standard, and a more appealing movie that avoids them - in Alt.
  • If the difference is hard to notice, it's just a speed-entertainment trade-off, and up to the author, and can be a part of any branch.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Did some updates, too tired to add the rest.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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mar is mame-rr's replay file, which is different from normal mame. But still, you can use lua to dump bizhawk inputs for a given machine during mar replay. For example here's a script that will dump bk2 inputs for a Raiden Fighters .inp movie: Download dump-inp.lua
Language: lua

fields = { { name = "|"}, { tag = ":COIN", mask = 0x1, name = "Coin 1", value = ".", mnemonic = "C" }, { tag = ":COIN", mask = 0x2, name = "Coin 2", value = ".", mnemonic = "C" }, { tag = ":SYSTEM", mask = 0x1, name = "1 Player Start", value = ".", mnemonic = "1" }, { tag = ":SYSTEM", mask = 0x2, name = "2 Players Start", value = ".", mnemonic = "2" }, { tag = ":SYSTEM", mask = 0x8, name = "Service 1", value = ".", mnemonic = "s" }, { tag = ":SYSTEM", mask = 0x4, name = "Service Mode", value = ".", mnemonic = "S" }, { name = "|"}, { tag = ":INPUTS", mask = 0x10, name = "P1 Button 1", value = ".", mnemonic = "1" }, { tag = ":INPUTS", mask = 0x20, name = "P1 Button 2", value = ".", mnemonic = "2" }, { tag = ":INPUTS", mask = 0x40, name = "P1 Button 3", value = ".", mnemonic = "3" }, { tag = ":INPUTS", mask = 0x2, name = "P1 Down", value = ".", mnemonic = "D" }, { tag = ":INPUTS", mask = 0x4, name = "P1 Left", value = ".", mnemonic = "L" }, { tag = ":INPUTS", mask = 0x8, name = "P1 Right", value = ".", mnemonic = "R" }, { tag = ":INPUTS", mask = 0x1, name = "P1 Up", value = ".", mnemonic = "U" }, { name = "|"}, { tag = ":INPUTS", mask = 0x1000, name = "P2 Button 1", value = ".", mnemonic = "1" }, { tag = ":INPUTS", mask = 0x2000, name = "P2 Button 2", value = ".", mnemonic = "2" }, { tag = ":INPUTS", mask = 0x4000, name = "P2 Button 3", value = ".", mnemonic = "3" }, { tag = ":INPUTS", mask = 0x200, name = "P2 Down", value = ".", mnemonic = "D" }, { tag = ":INPUTS", mask = 0x400, name = "P2 Left", value = ".", mnemonic = "L" }, { tag = ":INPUTS", mask = 0x800, name = "P2 Right", value = ".", mnemonic = "R" }, { tag = ":INPUTS", mask = 0x100, name = "P2 Up", value = ".", mnemonic = "U" }, { name = "|"} } local function getscreen() for k,v in pairs(manager.machine.screens) do return v end end local screen = getscreen() local curframe = -1 local function log(s, name) logfile = io.open(name, "ab") logfile:write(s) logfile:close() end function framecount() if curframe == screen:frame_number() then return end local line = "" for i = 1, #fields do local char0 = "!" if fields[i].name ~= "|" then local state = manager.machine.ioport.ports[fields[i].tag]:read() char0 = (state & fields[i].mask == 0) and fields[i].mnemonic or "_" end line = line .. char0 end log(line .. "\n", "log.txt") curframe = screen:frame_number() end emu.register_frame_done(framecount)
And here's a script that displays .mar inputs on the screen, so it can be used to similarly dump bk2 inputs: Download show-mar.lua
Language: lua

-- print(joypad.get()) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Ordered table iterator, allows to iterate on the natural order of the keys of a table -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- function __genOrderedIndex( t ) local orderedIndex = {} for key in pairs(t) do table.insert( orderedIndex, key ) end table.sort( orderedIndex ) return orderedIndex end function orderedNext(t, state) -- Equivalent of the next function, but returns the keys in the alphabetic -- order. We use a temporary ordered key table that is stored in the -- table being iterated. local key = nil --print("orderedNext: state = "..tostring(state) ) if state == nil then -- the first time, generate the index t.__orderedIndex = __genOrderedIndex( t ) key = t.__orderedIndex[1] else -- fetch the next value for i = 1,table.getn(t.__orderedIndex) do if t.__orderedIndex[i] == state then key = t.__orderedIndex[i+1] end end end if key then return key, t[key] end -- no more value to return, cleanup t.__orderedIndex = nil return end function orderedPairs(t) -- Equivalent of the pairs() function on tables. Allows to iterate -- in order return orderedNext, t, nil end local players = {} local other = {} function ParseInput() local input = joypad.get() local buttons = string.format("%d\n", movie.framecount()) for k, v in orderedPairs(input) do if k:find("^P") then local spacePos = k:find(" ") local playerNum = tonumber(k:sub(2, spacePos)) if playerNum ~= nil then local key = k:sub(spacePos + 1) :gsub("Button ", "") :gsub("Up", "U") :gsub("Down", "D") :gsub("Left", "L") :gsub("Right", "R") if players[playerNum] == nil then players[playerNum] = {} end players[playerNum][key] = v end else local key = k :gsub("Coin ", "C") :gsub("Service Mode", "SM") if k:find("Start") then local spacePos = k:find(" ") local playerNum = k:sub(1, spacePos - 1) key = "S"..playerNum end other[key] = v end end for k, v in pairs(players) do buttons = buttons .. "P" .. k ..": " for kk, vv in orderedPairs(v) do local value = " " if vv then value = kk end buttons = buttons .. value end buttons = buttons .. "\n" end for k, v in orderedPairs(other) do local value = " " if v then value = k end buttons = buttons .. value end gui.text(100, 0, buttons) end gui.register(ParseInput)
To figure out how a bk2 input file needs to be formatted, create a dummy bk2 for that game in bizhawk 2.9 and open its Input Log.txt file in a text editor.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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That's on them then.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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BizHawk 2.9 has been released! New cores
  • MAME (Arcade only)
  • Ares64
  • VirtualJaguar (with CD Support)
  • TIC-80
  • SubBSNESv115+
Lots of updates and fixes to existing cores and to EmuHawk. See the full release notes here: http://tasvideos.org/BizHawk/ReleaseHistory.html#Bizhawk29 Binaries: https://github.com/TASEmulators/BizHawk/releases/tag/2.9
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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BizHawk 2.9 has been released! New cores
  • MAME (Arcade only)
  • Ares64
  • VirtualJaguar
  • TIC-80
  • SubBSNESv115+
Lots of updates and fixes to existing cores and to EmuHawk. See the full release notes here: http://tasvideos.org/BizHawk/ReleaseHistory.html#Bizhawk29 Binaries: https://github.com/TASEmulators/BizHawk/releases/tag/2.9
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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it's a bit misleading as I feel like people would assume anything that gets the 10 gold medals would qualify for "maximum score"
From this description?
OtakuTAS for this run decides to get the maximum score possible in each event. For sports like the long jump or the javelin, it means the greatest distance. For ones like archery, it means getting perfect shots 100% of the time.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I don't understand Doom enough to be able to tell the difference, but I don't think you have to ask anymore (and we didn't import the Starman role anyway).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It needs to make the credits show up, while ending on the last input that makes them happen (eventually).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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This human record gets a higher score than your movie in long jump, so I checked and you can get a higher record by holding the button for a few more frames. Pressing it later gives 9.58 and disqualification.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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fsvgm777 wrote:
Personally, I'm more in favour of "full levels", as the full level is shown for each stage. "100% levels" feels a bit awkward to read for me.
Agreed.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Darkman425 wrote:
Alright, it's not April 1st anymore and I got time. This one was a bit tricky to get working due to some file shenanigans. If whatever version of bkonggx (the version used for this TAS) found doesn't seem to run in MAME, there are files in ckongg (unencrypted Galaxian hardware version of Crazy Kong) that share the same hashes of the missing files but not the file names MAME's looking for to run bigkonggx. These were the files that had to be taken and renamed from ckongg to bkonggx:
ckonggbkonggx
ck_cp.binmmi6331.6l
ckvid10.bingc.h1
ckvid7.bingc.k1
A better solution is using a newer MAME ROM set, which contains bigkonggx inside ckong.zip if it's merged, or as separate archives if split.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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If the same tricks work in both versions, I think having the more complete one is enough (especially if optimal input in the same levels is identical). If there are differences, having both versions means someone will be interested in TASing the shorter one to see how much quicker it gets, and therefore it makes sense to have it. But if you can automatically know how long the quicker one is by simply subtracting a constant value, or copying inputs and then cutting out one level, I'm not sure what value it has, and for whom.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It existed on real hardware.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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OtakuTAS wrote:
IMO do it feos' way, and skip through the cutscene super slow so people can read the text. Otherwise it doesn't look like the game finishes.
There's no "feos' way", and I didn't mean to say that the dialog has to be slowed down. Skipping through the dialog is fine, because the cutscene containing that dialog is clearly already there, and it's all we need.
OtakuTAS wrote:
Okay then screw the rest, the whole "safe save" thing is useless
If some people need it for something, it's not useless. It's just not something TASVideos would require.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Spikestuff wrote:
The other nitpick is this and the RTA speedruns you're referencing select the shortest mission instead of the last mission where you are in the Ministry of Magic for a face off Voldemort's goons (which is also selectable as a note). So to me, this is just ending at some random ass mission instead of the last one.
I agree with this.
Movie Rules wrote:
The movie must be complete Your submission must beat the game, or reach the most suitable endpoint the game allows. Single-level or otherwise incomplete movies are not allowed. Examples of suitable endpoints are:
  • A definitive ending, such as a credits sequence.
This game doesn't have a credits sequence, but it has a cutscene that completes the plot. If that's a much of an ending as we can get, it's what we should get. After all the goal of a movie is not to create a working save file, but to trigger the most reasonable ending. Sure some movies glitch the game so hard that including the entire ending becomes a problem, but they still have at least a part of it.
So I wanted to replace the submission with User movie #638138088715807082, but I compared it to the RTA record that includes that level, and some fights in that human run are quicker than in this submission. What could be the reason?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Rerecording emulators have been tracking rerecord numbers (how many times you loaded a movie savestate) for a long time, and they've become a standard stat for TASVideos publications. There were only a few exceptions:
  • Movies where a brute-force kinda tool was used (usually called a bot), for which we used to exclude botted rerecords from the main count
  • Movies where the real rerecord count is not known, and we set it to 0, which the site parses as "unknown"
  • Movies where the rerecord count doesn't reflect the real picture, but was left as is
  • Movies where the rerecord count was set to some arbitrary value
Over the years, some questions about how rerecords are tracked and used on the site have accumulated. In an ideal scenario, no rerecords are lost or bloated, and a well done movie usually has a rerecord count that is bigger than the frame count. Which usually makes people who love statistics happy, because they can appreciate the work that went into the movie. But...
  • Sometimes low rerecord count is used as a reason to question the movie, without actually looking into its optimality, and sometimes authors are even asked questions about why the number is so low.
  • Rerecords cannot reflect research and development behind the scenes
  • Some people work with several movies at once, and their rerecords don't even reflect their actual TAS work (unless they explicitly sum everything up)
  • Regardless of research and development, rerecords can be set to an arbitrary number, which makes them a completely meaningless stat in those cases
  • Even legitimately high rerecord counts won't tell a lot about actual movie quality, because to understand it one has to understand the underlying challenge, which in turn requires facing the same problems as the author did. And that may be impossible because the ground work has already been done, or if the author is good at writing, it can be described in the submission text
So we started wondering if it still makes a whole lot of sense to keep tracking rerecords on the site the way we've been doing it all along, or maybe something is worth updating. For example I wouldn't want low rerecord count to be used as an argument against the movie, or even authors anticipating it and explaining in advance why it's low. Movie quality should be assessed by actual gameplay. On the other hand, making rerecord display optional on the site (or even removing it entirely) would imply more dev work, and maybe some people actually want to show this stat about their movie. So I'm asking for opinions, and I got an idea myself. What if we hide rerecords on the site and don't use it in publications, unless the author has provided it in the submission description?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Fortranm wrote:
https://tasvideos.org/Movies-initstate Currently this tag is used for [2487] NES Cheetahmen II by adelikat in 01:11.68 only. Should this be expanded to include all movies that utilize uninitialized SRAM initial states too?
Sounds sane to include them, but why is it SRAM specifically and not all initialized memory? Also that movie not just uses uninitialized initial state but specifically sets it via emulator settings, so it should only apply if a movie uses initial state that is not default in the emulator. A lot of games forget to initialize memory and some startup states can break games, so emulator authors had to choose which specific startup states are the most compatible with real games, and if they were dedicated enough, they also researched what used to happen on actual consoles. But as long as you don't deviate from the default, you're a part of the fair standardized competition, even if it's not 100% accurate.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Alyosha wrote:
'Movies by Genre' -> 'Unofficial game' is empty. (I guess it's 'Homebrew' now but there is no link for that.)
https://github.com/TASVideos/tasvideos/issues/1532
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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