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Whether it's slower or faster than something, is only a part of the "compound goals" guideline. Right now this can only be checked concerning similarity to existing examples. As in, warp usage is traditionally such a goal that needs to go to the label, and it's considered internal. For the 2P example, in this particular game you still play alone each time, not "controls several characters at once" kinda movie. So strictly speaking, the amount of players is still the same. And gameplay is exactly the same for each of them. They are virtually the same character playing each level twice. However, I agree that there's no way to objectively check if the goal we're dealing with is internal or not, and whether it's "internal enough" to get to the label. I'll need a few days to ponder this.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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DrD2k9 wrote:
The codes/cheats were just a way to activate them earlier than would normally be possible in the course of regular gameplay. For clarification, the game NEVER presents the codes.
This is the key. Since there is a legit way to access them, that legit way will be judged as legit, and the way using the external resources will be considered forbidden.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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DrD2k9 wrote:
Regarding the LEGO games: I'm quite familiar with them. There is a set place in each of the various LEGO games where you can enter codes/cheats to immediately unlock/activate the "extras" as mentioned by thecoreyburton. These codes were not included in any of the game documentation but were instead found included with actual LEGO kits purchased from a store that were the same licensing as the videogame. However, it is possible to unlock all of these "extras" through normal gameplay by collecting (usually) red lego bricks scattered throughout the game. Once collected, the red brick can then be purchased/activated with in-game currency (LEGO studs) which then allows the player to enable the brick's bonus gameplay effect from the pause menu. In my opinion, as long as the codes aren't used to acquire these bricks' effects, it's not cheating. It's a collection perk awarded for doing the extra work necessary to collect/purchase them.
This makes it a bit more complicated. If you have to buy some irrelevant merch or other products to learn about these cheats and how to access them, then they are forbidden. If the game present them to you, it's allowed. But now the question rises, whether we require the game to present them to you first, to allow you to use them after? So far there's no clear ruling on such scenario. Is activating the cheats different for these 2 scenarios? For example, the game shows you the "XYZ" password after you do certain actions. And the same password is printed on your LEGO themed t-shirt's label. If the place where you enter that password is the same regardless, then I think it's allowed.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I linked to our definition of in-game codes from the cheat rule: http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#CheatsDebuggingCodesAndArcadeContinuesAreNotAllowed See if your case is still questionable. So far it doesn't seem so.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Why are they called cheats anyway?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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arkiandruski wrote:
So for example with the LEGO Star Wars 100% category, buying cheats that you find in the levels is part of the 100% completion, and most of the prices for things you have to buy are balanced to those cheats. If I were to make a movie in that category for that game, or any other game in the series, would I be allowed to turn on the cheats I buy?
Is it mentioned in the manual? What is the usual way to learn about these cheats during normal play?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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JSmith wrote:
ACE and fully arbitrary memory corruption are not permitted in full completion categories, regardless of what sort of advantage they're used for. Lesser memory corruption glitches are allowed, but you can't use them to skip the normal process for collecting items. There's no practical difference between writing the items into inventory using ACE and successively warping to each item using ACE while also skipping the item jingles.
Yes, the current rules already state that such things are banned from full completion. I just want community's opinion whether we should explicitly ban them for other primary branch goals as well, like the ones I described.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Dimon12321 wrote:
You do the revolution, guys!
Exactly. If only they emulated more modern hardware well. Also, look at my new sig!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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This is the last standalone x86 release of flashplayer for linux. We should be trying this on linux installed on mame. If it doesn't work, we'll have to find earlier releases. Right now I'm downloading all FP versions. https://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/flashplayer/installers/archive/fp_11.2.202.644_archive.zip My mirror https://yadi.sk/d/--v2JZiv3Wid46
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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CtrlAltDestroy wrote:
After watching the movie and reading the entire thread, I've concluded that this thread is undeniable proof that this community likes to argue over nothing. https://xkcd.com/915/
This is known. We are conversation nerds. It's impossible to be a nerd at TASing and not get professional deformation.
CtrlAltDestroy wrote:
I'm only speaking for myself, but many of the most memorable TAS moments I can recall are the moments that made me think the movie was desynching or that the player made some kind of obvious mistake, only to be revealed that it wasn't a mistake at all. A good example would be in the SMB2U TAS on world 4-3 where players like to make Luigi stall in the starting room, which clearly looks like a mistake, only for the viewer to realize later (or even better, not to realize and have to ask about it) that the Birdo's eggs are on a global timer and he needed to wait for it. To me, mastery and perfection are inherently entertaining, and making a fool of the viewer is one of the highest forms of demonstrating mastery.
I also fully agree with this. It just appears that when the audience of any, once obscure, hobby becomes huge enough, the amount of people whose tastes differ increases too. This is life, it's silly to get upset by the very presence of dislikers.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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To be honest, I don't know why we even still have polls. It's been mentioned a few times (not only in this thread), that when a movie is being judged, only posts that represent actual notion are considered. Silent votes are always disregarded. Because really, they don't prove anything at all, therefore we can't use them for anything when judging. What we care about is posts. And posts make it clear who dislikes or likes your movie. Also posts contain a whole lot of other potentially useful information, we share ideas and come up with solutions. Or argue, like ITT. I learned one important thing recently. Polls are for things that can be simplified to the point of stupidity. You don't have to invest any serious effort into brainstorming, looking for logical solutions, discussing, generating insights. You just voice your opinion in a simplified form. Since it's a simplified form, it's not helpful. Often we have complicated situations with tons of factors to consider, and it's not known beforehand if there is even a sensible solution. In order to resolve such open problems gracefully, a lot of mental effort is required. Sharing ideas, digging into non-obvious aspects, evaluating the potential outcomes, all sorts of crazy stuff. We are geeks, we love this, puzzle-solving is in our blood since the day we learned TASing. Do silent votes help with any of this? No way. Another problem, votes can be manipulated to provide desirable outcome. You just have to simplify the problem in people's eyes, and provide options that are based on that simplified problem. You can preset people's opinions if you're smart (and mean) enough. We don't want to rely on that kind of things. This is why we don't believe in silent votes officially. We only believe in helpful discussion. Submission votes are a legacy thing, maybe people want it to be there. I don't think removing its has ever been considered. But it's virtually non-existent when it comes to serious mental effort. tl;dr: don't mind silent votes, treat them as youtube comments. Because that's what judges do.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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p4wn3r wrote:
Essentially, if you spend months making a run and explaining how everything does, you should be open to people bashing it without knowing anything useful. But if you just spend 20 minutes watching a movie, then you are free to write and vote whatever you want for any reason, because it is not acceptable to say that their criticism is dumb. Youtube users that scream "Cheats!" at every TAS should find this policy very nice!
This post seems to be talking about policies. Which tasvideos policy does it criticize in particular, and what are the suggestions to fix or improve it?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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You can look at it differently. Reaching the end via a major skip glitch is primarily demonstrating the glitch itself, and the fact that it can be used to speed you up. It doesn't matter if you call that any%, or you call any% the fastest run that avoids that technique. I think the common rules about "any%" meaning no restrictions on glitches haven't served our categorization approaches too well. We only happen to accept such any% for Vault. For Moons we accept both "glitched fastest game completion" and "fastest game completion without major skip glitches". The latter demonstrates how you reach the goal of beating the game, the former demonstrates how you can glitch the game into thinking it's been beaten. But for all other categories, we can't equally accept 2 versions of each branch:
  • "pacifist, warp glitch" and just "pacifist"
  • "all items, arbitrary code execution" and just "all items"
  • "maximum kills, game end glitch" and just "maximum kills"
It doesn't (and shouldn't) work like this. We prefer the ones that more faithfully achieve the primary goals. We also want to avoid redundancy, avoid meaningless publications. And finally, we want to only publish branches with solidly defined goals.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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In 2014 viewer enjoyment coming from PSX Oddworld games has greatly degraded, and stopped resulting in Moons ratings the prior Oddworld TASes had. http://tasvideos.org/Movies-PSX-Group45-RatingV-Obs.html So anything beyond any% and 100% is very unlikely to be accepted from the series. "Max casualties" is the only sensible exception it seems.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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[18:01] <Spikestuff> >Shit [18:01] <Spikestuff> >Shit [18:01] <Spikestuff> >Shit [18:01] <Spikestuff> >Shit [18:01] <Spikestuff> >Genocide is funny [18:01] <Spikestuff> >Shit [18:01] <Spikestuff> >Shit [18:01] <Spikestuff> >Shit [18:01] <Spikestuff> (Also please for the love of God don't take that out of context anyone)
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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If you mean j2me, it'd still need an emulator, and we're quite aground in terms of good j2me emulation. There are a few potentially good emulators in development, but I have no idea if they will run on such a machine: https://github.com/hex007/freej2me http://multiphasicapps.net/doc/ckout/readme.mkd (no releases yet)
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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andypanther, I know it's arbitrary, it will be duly addressed. I just think we need to discuss this rule proposal as a community, because we have a nice example of why we'd want such a rule, which is this run.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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BTW they added some of the debugger help to the docs: http://docs.mamedev.org/debugger/index.html Also, mame-rr implements ram search/watch. https://i.imgur.com/b5J3LpK.png Finally, I'm pretty sure I've already linked his, but still here it is again: http://tasvideos.org/ReverseEngineering.html
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I have another absurd idea. We know that Linux can be installed on ct486: http://forums.bannister.org//ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=104548#Post104548 Will it be possible to install a linux distro that supports the latest adobe flash player? Adobe site says red hat 5.6+ is supported: https://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/archived-flash-player-versions.html#main_Archived_versions I wonder if it's possible to find a super minimalistic linux distro that has no gui or anything, but is only capable of running the latest flashplayer. If so, Flash games will become TASable finally, using the original software they were developed for!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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So let's talk about the glitch used here to get the medallions. I was told that it can easily be considered a major skip glitch, without it the run with the same goals would be more than twice as long. Recently there was a common decision at tasvideos to forbid memory corruption, ACE, and some other glitches from "full completion" actions. http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#FullCompletionRules Note that all these techniques can still be used throughout the whole run, they just can not be used for things that represent full completion requirements. For example, in a Super Metroid 100% run, you can activate ACE and use it to speed you up, but not for writing the items into your inventory without actually collecting them, and not for displaying the false item count percentage in the end. So I want to ask, do we want other goals that form branches to also forbid such techniques, not just "full completion"? For example, do we want to consider a legit TAS a run of Super Metroid aiming for "100% map" that simply uses ACE to color all the map as visited, while only visiting, say, a single room for real? Or do we want Contra: Hard Corps "best ending" to go the "secret ending" route instead, and then glitch the game into showing us the best ending? Or do we want Tetris "fastest 999999" to glitch the game into showing that score instead of actually obtaining it in-game? I think that any goal that forms the TAS branch should be accomplished for real, instead of tricking the game into thinking it was accomplished. And I think the exception should be demonstrating the glitchy technique itself, like "box glitch" in Crash Bandicoot. If we agree on such a rule, it becomes clear that this run doesn't aim to collect all the medallions. It just showcases a glitch that tricks the game into thinking they have been collected. Something like "all medallions glitch". Or "item glitch". You name it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Warp wrote:
I seem to remember some kind of discussion about this, and the consensus was that Wii VC versions of games would probably be accepted. I might remember wrong.
Correct.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Why won't you post the Lua scripts you've made?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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p4wn3r wrote:
From my part, I think it's entirely unreasonable that every movie before this one had a given level of entertainment preferences and, somehow, coincidentally, after people stir a bit of controversy in the submission thread, the preferences of many users suddenly change and they don't find HappyLee's choices entertaining anymore. While everyone is allowed to exercise their subjectivity in rating something, no one deserves special treatment if the author has good reasons to believe the "rating" is bullshit also.
Maybe it has to do with the fact that there appeared a competitor out of thin air? I mean, before MrWint stepped in, everyone was taking HappyLee's work for granted, and now they are subconsciously challenging it?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Stovent wrote:
Here, he collected all the medallions, so the games allows him to enter Ganon's castle in the regular way, but uses a credit warp glitch to skip iit and finishes the game faaster.
Still unsure. He collects them, therefore he is then allowed to enter the castle, but he just never enters it? As in, medallions are effectively useless in this run?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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BrunoVisnadi wrote:
that's not how we are supposed to vote.
We're not censoring votes for a reason. But should we really switch to that topic here?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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