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Maybe it's possible to just resync the existing one without redoing the whole thing?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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The ROM this run syncs on after the patch is applied is
Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! (U) (PRG1) [!].nes (goodnes title)
Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! (Japan, USA) (Rev A).nes (no-intro title)
But that's not the ROM the patch was made for. It was made for
Punch-Out!! (U) [!].nes (goodnes title)
Punch-Out!! (USA).nes (no-intro title)
The hashes for the correct ROM are provided on the hack page on RHDN that you linked, as well as its no-intro filename.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Inability to use dipswitches on the fly indeed causes a problem for games like this. On actual MAME they are just regular inputs and can be changed at any time, but when implementing them in the hawk port I thought that having a way to set them initially once would be enough. On the other hand if we make them editable on the fly, that opens room for potential crazy abuse like tweaking certain switches every frame to confuse the game. While technically that's a normal part of TASing (just like pressing Left+Right at once on an NES controller), it borders with abusing unintended environment IMO (for example we don't blindly allow passing all command line arguments to a PC game because of things like noclip).
So I'm not sure how to solve it in the neatest way going forward. Allowing it to be pre-configured before running the movie feels acceptable at least, if no gameplay has been completed during the preparation. I wouldn't even make such movies as save-anchored via movie tags.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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OtakuTAS wrote:
You mention the "accepted" emulators and this is an interesting point as it's a huge gray area and an abusable loophole that should be corrected going forward.
i.e. I could run a Game Boy Color game on BizHawk 1.0 on save a ton of time due to emulation inaccuracies, luckily nobody seems to have tried this strategy to my knowledge but it presents an interesting issue
OtakuTAS wrote:
for new submissions I'm surprised there's no rule setting that you can't use an emulator several years out of date just for the heck of it
Any time saved or lost from version differences and/or emulation accuracy is considered unavoidable, and is discounted. Your improvement movie may even be longer than the published run, but it is still considered an improvement if it improves upon gameplay.
You should always use the most accurate emulator available and a good ROM of the game, even if the published movie does not.
Glitches that specifically rely on poor emulation must be avoided, even (and especially) if the published movie uses them.
A new movie may involve emulation accuracy improvements. Emulation accuracy often adds extra lag, resulting in improvements that appear longer than the movie they're trying to obsolete. Always ensure the new movie has gameplay improvements. If the new timesavers can be applied to the old movie, they count as improvements.
Nonetheless, if going with FCEUX, it should be ran on the newest version.
While this is true as we can see from the quotes I provided, the fact that certain emulators (and certain versions of emulators) are not banned, means they are generally okay to use. We just think that people tend to prefer the better ones, and we have protection against actual abuse. Also a judge can rule for a certain game that certain versions of some emulator must be used for future submissions (for example if some feature started working properly).
And in case of fceux specifically, it barely got any notable accuracy improvements over more than a decade, aside from occasional fixes for individual games. Most of the time the difference is just in timings of things.
OtakuTAS wrote:
Samsara wrote:
Honestly, Otaku, if you're going to try and suggest sweeping changes to site policy regarding deprecation of emulators, the best thing you could do is actually give us proper evidence for why it should be done
Download any run from several years ago and it will not sync, this is well-known. Again, not emulators, versions. I know you know this as well which is again why I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying as a whole and I attempted to clarify above
Technically, accuracy is not an objective category. It does not necessarily keep increasing with every code tweak that devs do, and sometimes some changes even have to be reverted from release to release. Because the way to check if something became more accurate requires deep technical research and a lot of tools that very few people have in the emulation hobby. For this reason we don't obsolete old movies by their resyncs on new emu versions without gameplay improvements.
To get banned, an emulator (or its version) has to be considered bad by the community, both objectively (apparent issues with emulation or usage) and subjectively (effectively abandoned).
OtakuTAS wrote:
Apologies for that, I'm still working out the BBCode differences between the forum posts and the submissions/wiki. I was expecting that to be standardized but it is incredibly different (URL linking for example) and often... most times... confusing. The link to the markup usage guide isn't on the same side of the text box and is a different size, so there's been a good few times I got lost and tried to find the guide, and got lost finding the guide too. Lol. I do often make little edits to complete a whole picture as this is live stuff, but I'll try and consolidate it further.
Just mark your edits as minor in the dedicated checkbox when sending them.
OtakuTAS wrote:
Hell, half the reason I even write walls of text is because half the time you say something here it feels like you piss somebody off or somebody misunderstands the whole point of what you are trying to say, but apparently that isn't working either. I'm just not going to say anything anymore.
This is definitely a thing, but it can be helped by leaving more room for corrections in the way one posts. For example you can see how many posts have been made based on the assumption that we don't care about different emu versions at all, and it was also a misinterpretation.
Just like in TASing, the only mistakes we make are those we don't go back and fix. If we've fixed them, nobody has the right to blame us for trying, because that's how people live.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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While we already have a coupleothers as "glitchless", [4923] Flash Sniper Assassin 3 "inbound mouse" by Spikestuff in 02:37.50 uses a glitch to skip levels, and this submission uses OOB mouse clicking on top of that. The published one doesn't have good feedback, and I can't say it has unique content compared to this run, so there's a question:
While the time difference is 16% (not tiny), there's barely any real action that's being skipped here. IMO restricting mouse movement would fit perfectly under "glitchless", but I don't know of a good way to categorize anything between that and any%. OOB mouse without the level skip glitch could fit into Alternative, but wouldn't that be too similar to "glitchless" anyway?
I have a feeling OOB mouse in this game fits the artistic decision to use or forgo speed techniques for entertainment, but reducing the wait is arguably also more entertaining, so I'm not sure what the current publication could showcase.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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"glitchless" tag.
Should it supersede all mentions of avoided glitches?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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YoshiRulz wrote:
I only intend to keep a couple of the subpages
Which ones?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It's easy to see that something fishy is being done by looking at initial input, and it's as easy as asking what it does, then we can figure out the rest. If games explicitly ask for this, it can't be cheating.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Samsara wrote:
This would be specifically for emulators we may support in the future: PCSX2, Ryujinx, Yuzu, stuff that's still actively being worked on and either already have or could implement TAS tools. We don't need to keep the Nintendulator info at all, but I do think we should have a defined place for emulators we don't but could support.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Merge in MoviesToObsoleteFrom2004 and MoviesToObsoleteFrom2005 and expand it to other years
Maybe anything more than a decade old? Just 2000s publications?
Merge in Bounties
These don't get made or fulfilled often enough to keep a top level page dedicated to them.
Merge in SDARunsWithoutAPublishedTAS
Yup. Just makes sense.
I'd make those subpages for ListOfIdeas. Old unobsoleted pubs could be all on one subpage, split by year and put into tabs.
Page Merging/Combining
Agreed.
OtherEmulators moved to EmulatorResources/Other
This might incentivize people to fill in potential emulators that we don't currently support.
I'm not quite convinced we need to have docs on emulators that have little to no chance (or reason) to be added proper TAS tools and site parser.
Wiki Restructuring - Top Level Page Deletion
I don't have an opinion.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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The current version of the page looks good, but I discovered these 2 pages that also answer newcomer questions, so we may want to reorganize things a little bit so it's not 3 separate FAQ pages:
Wiki: FAQ/SiteWiki: FAQ/TASing
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Dimon12321 wrote:
Some games for GC and Wii feature Action Replay cheats which unlock 60 FPS, I think, by uncapping the framerate. Are they allowed to be used?
Action Replay cheats are not features of games but external modifications of them.
External codes are allowed in Alternative if they unlock gameplay or content in the game that in-game codes can't access. Otherwise they are treated as ROM hacks.
Uncapping framerate in console games sounds like a cosmetic improvement, overclocking also uses to remove lag and make gameplay smoother, but it's a territory we haven't explored yet. With PC games you could tweak the environment they run in to make them perform better, but with consoles it's a hack, of either the game or the environment, and neither supported such modification officially.
It would be definitely good for Wiki: Playground, but whether it's worth publishing may require a new discussion. The main question would be where exactly do we stop with external cosmetic improvements, and how legit the result would feel the the wide audience.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Randomno wrote:
TASes are produced in emulators or other deterministic frameworks that let their creators have complete control over the play environment. For example, TASers can slow the game down as much as they want, save and load at any time to remove mistakes, and at times even directly access and change the game's code by only using controller input.
The first two items are tools to make TASes (frame advance and savestates), the third is more of a consequence of those tools (ACE). A more fitting option might be viewing the game's memory (RAM watch).
While not ambiguous, the consequences of this being misunderstood are fairly large, if it gets incorrectly reiterated elsewhere online, implying that ROM hacking is allowed.
Even if not in that section, ACE is definitely worth a mention on the intro page. On a more technical note, I don't think ACE is really modifying the game's code (i.e. the ROM)? Rather making the game execute code from RAM.
Agreed, the first 2 items are definitely examples of tools usage, and fiddling with game code via controller input is not a TAS tool, it's a result of tool usage. It's also correct that you can't change game code through controller input because it's read-only memory (ROM).
Tools we use that fiddle with game memory are disassembly/decompilation, and sometimes memory poking to see how the game would behave if a certain thing happens (and then we decide if we even want to grind for such an event). It's important to make it clear that games are unmodified when a movie is replayed.
It would be better to list ACE in a different section, among examples of movie features (which we have tags for).
a database of game resources for those who wish to learn
What if we link Wiki: Games/List here instead, for an all-encompassing database (which contains links to game resources and more)?
Suggestion for the Why do we do this? section:
I think a huge part of why this hobby is thriving is because it involves a huge variety of spheres, so nobody feels limited:
taste for creativity (entertaining movies, innovative movie goals and TAS tools)
working with people on various levels (co-operative TASing, inspiring and teaching newcomers, designing policies upon consensus)
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I think it would be fair to have a default guideline similar to this: "If some technique causes questions, it's better to avoid it". Of course for pre-existing definitions it should be acceptable to just rely on them, but making them stricter for a TAS would be worth a preference IMO.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I linked a specific thread for asking about specific games. And to make sensible decisions we need as much info as possible on a given glitch.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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WarHippy wrote:
What about movies that only have graphical differences when a glitch is used? Should there be two movies published side by side where one has the character moonwalking and the other doesn't even though there's zero difference in the final time?
Should we define glitchless to only include glitches that would save time?
Are there examples of games where the only known glitch is cosmetic and doesn't save time?
jlun2 wrote:
I'm actually inspired by your quote:
If TASing is meta-play, TASVideos Movie Rules are meta-meta-play!
Then why were you frustrated at the discussion?
jlun2 wrote:
I am a glitch hunter, so I love finding exploits to use. In this case, rules like this I find fun to utilize. The same thing happens for games. The developers make a bunch of rules (the code), and I immediately go "so what can I do to break the game?" In other words, I'm asking this not in the view of "this class bad", but in the view of "so how do I break it"?
As a TASer you would need to do your best judgment on how to break a game the least, and if unsure ask judges as well. Ideally talk to the existing community for that game too. Again, the global policies, and game specific rules, are meant to make sense.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
