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I updated the movie file with one with the Bald Bull realtime improvement. Note that I did not update the encode, because I didn't not want to take the time to make a new encode and upload it, especially since no in-game times were improved.
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DJ Incendration wrote:
Nice work, yes vote! There's a real time improvement you missed. On Bald Bull, it's actually faster in real time to knock him down with an uppercut when he's dizzy.
Bleh, I don't even care about realtime improvements and that's so early in the movie. However, I'm working on the update now, it will be a 28 frame realtime improvement, for what that's worth.
Awosomeandy wrote:
Zallard1 did not find this new adjustment, it was Lixunis.
https://youtu.be/Ao-ZP7-mxkI
here was the original TAS video
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Yes, I tried a number of things, and I should document them here for future reference.
1) Lose a turn, probably not helpful but worth trying. You can play your first move, then do a take back during the CPU turn. It will now be the opening board position but black is going first.
2) Play as black.
3) Variations using e3
4) Absurd moves early on in hopes of more moves with more take backs but no long waits.
This submission manages to only have one "long wait" with 2. Nf6, being over 11k frames, vs 5k on 3.Nxh5 as the next longest. Some moves are even around 1k or 3k. In theory, there is potential to do a few short moves instead of one long one, but nothing I tried worked out. It would help if this game had at least some opening book theory, but alas.
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Replaced the movie file with an updated version. New version uses the 2+2 takeback strategy, also moved to NesHawk for better accuracy and quicknes has a lot of extra lag. This movie is 14 frames slower than Fractal's but I confirmed it is all emulation differences. All frame differences were in screen transitions where no input is happening.
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FractalFusion wrote:
adelikat wrote:
FractalFusion wrote:
IIRC, this TAS is easily beaten by ~1m30s, somewhere on this forum.
Ah, this: https://tasvideos.org/Forum/Posts/108220
Very clever, looks like 2 take backs + 2 take backs avoids the computer thinking for one more move, I'll make an updated version
For a moment, I thought no one actually wanted to take the credit that I was practically giving away for free.
Cool, it's yours.
It's funny, and embarassing, that I missed this movie of yours by simply not reading the entire thread. I remembered Dacicus' TAS and found it and began working to improve it. Your move order is exactly what I stumbled on too. I redid the movie, it's now 115 frames slow than your, that I am confident is emulation differences based on where the frames are lost. I used quicknes so I can fast forward through painfully long thinking times, I'll have to redo with NesHawk to see what happens there.
I also want to look for more possibilities as well, so I am not ready to update this movie.
Your words worry me that you are upset, but I am not sure. I didn't mention authorship, but now that I have redone the movie, I see it is the same moves and take backs. I would not feel comfortable with this movie, as is, being a sole authorship of mine.
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FractalFusion wrote:
IIRC, this TAS is easily beaten by ~1m30s, somewhere on this forum.
Ah, this: https://tasvideos.org/Forum/Posts/108220
Very clever, looks like 2 take backs + 2 take backs avoids the computer thinking for one more move, I'll make an updated version
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I really enjoyed this and voted yes.
I assume you are familiar with the NES version's glitches and that none of them are applicable for the arcade version?
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I'm very convinced that publication classes (formerly known as tiers) should be redone as follows:
Stars becomes a flag and then you just have 2 classes:
Standard
Alternative Goals
And I'm very convinced it needs to be "Alternative Goals", as it is clear what it is, without carrying any stigma about being a lesser class of publications.
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Just want to document this, as part of what I did for this TAS is write a lua script that would show warps, fairies and happy faces on the screen, even if they are hidden. I used this to scour the game for any unknown ones and found none that were not already known. Was worth a shot :)
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Very entertaining. It’s nice to see a lag free version of this game compared to the NES version. Looks technically impressive too. Easy yes vote from me
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petaQ wrote:
Great to see an update! I'm curious: when we use the normal control scheme RTA you can buffer momentum for the start of the next stage for a while after crossing goal lines, is that also used for the relevant levels here?
I mean, I'm always holding a direction and pressing A. I wasn't sure if it doesn't anything, but I do it anyway.
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GJTASer2018 wrote:
adelikat wrote:
Avoiding this potential crash to get to that point I think is inherently interesting, especially since no human or bot has done this (yet), so it shows off something unique to TAS.
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Good discussions. And in general, I'm not opposed to almost any decision here.
But, I still have hard line stance that to be in Standard, we must require a verification movie. Otherwise it can be moons (which needs a better name now but that's another discussion).
There's a deceptive amount of trickery (including unintentional) that can be done with just a random .sram file. There's an illusion of legitimacy compared to a savestate run but you can very much exploit sram in hard to detect ways. Standard should be for things that do no require this level of questioning and scrutiny. I'll leave this as exhibit A, and challenge anyone to be able to tell me why: #1039: Bisqwit's NES Mega Man in 00:19.55
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My vote would be that it is a hard requirement that a verification file is required, in order for it to be accepted to standard. There's too many ways to exploit SRAM, for it to be considered Standard and not a fringe goal, we need the verification.
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Huge yes vote, very entertaining. Thank you for making this TAS!
Fun fact, this is the version of Super C I played first, when it came out. I was at a movie theatre. I remember it blowing my mind at how realistic and intense it was, heh.
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m_riss wrote:
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Does this movie also sync on the unpatched ROM?
This will sync on an unpatched ROM. However, there is a chance that it will crash earlier than intended on original hardware.
A chance? Shouldn't these inputs be deterministic?
Also, regarding optimization, I think the more important thing to establish is goal choice. At level 256, the levels actually wrap back to 0 and it goes back to level 0 speed. Avoiding this potential crash to get to that point I think is inherently interesting, especially since no human or bot has done this (yet), so it shows off something unique to TAS. I'd rather see that goal choice than this one, which is bot achievable and theoretically human achievable (humans are a long way away from these levels, but it is a matter of endurance and luck than it is skill at this point). I'd like to establish what the reasonable goal choice here, rather than simply rejecting for optimization.
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The crash isn't guaranteed to happen at a particular level or line count, correct? Would it theoretically be possible to avoid it crashing until a level wrap? If so, that would be a far more interesting goal.
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So, I made some significant updates to the Game system.
1) Game abbreviations are increased from 8 to 24 characters. I also enforced them to be unique. I fixed all duplicate keys, mostly by adding the system if it made sense.
2) Youtube tags are now aliases. However, we need to do significant work here. We need to only have values that make sense as aliases, and remove the display name as that is redundant. Also the search is sophisticated to do punctuation variations, so we need to go through and clean those out too
3) I made abbreviations not required. I found that the abbreviations are problematic. Currently they are used to make friendly urls. You can go /Games/smb and it will link to super mario bros due to the abbreviation. I think maybe we should remove MOST abbreviations however, as there are not intuitive abbreviations for the game.
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SmashManiac wrote:
There's a link on this page now called "This page" that appears to lead to the old list, but instead it's a link to itself. The actual new link to follow on that page is the "rejected submissions" one, but I thought it was the wrong link at first because the contents of the page is identical to the main Movies > Submissions page until I realized the list of filters is different.
The old list does not exist, it was intended to go to a description of each reason, I just linked the wrong page, that has been fixed
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Done! No more ram addresses on TASVideos. I was able to create .wch files (in the formats compatible with the given systems) and upload them to the TVA account. No data was lost.
I also added the ability for game pages to list ram watch files that are connected to the game, giving these files some visibility.
