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the awful puns to work. For balzack, I plan to use that next time. Taloons attack isn't as necessary so I could use that to prevent balzack from attacking and saving some time. Its worth it because it prevents both of his attacks that turn and one of them is always breath or snowstorm which take a long time.
Dissappointing that beat, defeat, poison needle, and venemous dagger do not work on bosses. Seems as though the game programmers where just too thorough.
Also, with the treasure map glitch. Using the treasure map causes doors that are normally always open to become closed. Such as the ones in Stancia. I don't see how this is useful, but I just thought I share.
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I just beat balzack without using ragnar and it only took 2 1/2 rounds! With ragnar it could've been done in 2 but I think it would have been slower. With balzack, one of his attacks is always a breath attack or snowstorm, which would take longer with 4 characters. Also his delay for the critical would have to be factored in. Now that Alena is getting higher levels she getting criticals very easily with little delay (2 were on the 1st frame possible)
I will bring him in for the bakor fight (the guy has a 1000 hps, I'm going to need a little extra)
Also, Just before the balzack fight I fought a rhinothrope (or something like that) and manipulatede a battle axe drop which helped a lot.
This is faster (and better weapons) than getting taloon to aquire them in chapter 3.
I was thinking about the beat spell today, since cristo is leveling up with everybody. He might get hight enough to use it. Could it really be successfully used against bosses? (alla Final Fantasy Bane sword)
That would be awsome.
Haven't considered the poison needle. I might try that too. Maybe it can affect bosses. The venemous dagger doesn't kill the boss though does it? I think it just freezes them. (which would still save time)
How about a low-level mara solo going up against Necrossaro alone and killing him on the 1st try. That would be beautiful!
As for Taloon waving his finger - that hasn't worked on keelon or balzack (I tried a lot)
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I'm very interested, its about time I learn how to do this stuff.
It suprises me that is a variable amount, perhaps I can manipulate that.
So he has 500 hps and regenerates approx 50 a turn? Thats going to take awhile.
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Alright I need some help.
Balzack II has HP regeneration.
How much does he regenerate per turn?
Can someone hack in and find that info. I've checked Gamefaqs and other places and no one seems to know.
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found a couple of slight time savers watching this video today.
1) On your first trip out of the castle you shouldn't buy herbs at breccenary. Instead you should go to Garin to buy them. In breccenary you have to walk a long way to get to the shop whereas in Garin, it is right by the entrance.
I calculated the number of extra steps for each scenario:
breccenary = 72 steps
garin = 70 steps
in addition, in breccenary to have to go into the building and exit. The animation for that adds even more time.
Not much but probably saves about 2 seconds.
2) Also: Acmlm from workbench wrote:
- Going first against more Metal Slimes and needing only one herb instead of 2 to get Erdrick's Token
If you use one less herb that saves you 24 gp. I noticed on the movie that the 2nd goldman gives a low amount; only 167 instead of a potiential 195 or so. If you maximized the 1st goldman's gold to 195 or so (instead of 187) and combine that with the 24 gp savings you might not need the 2nd fight to be a goldman. You could fight a wolflord instead (they give as much as 80 gp). They are easier to kill plus you could get him to cast stopspell and not have to take damage.
those plus:
- Beating the first Goldman in 2 hits, no need to heal after
- Dying faster after getting the harp
-possibly leveling to 9 and using hurt exclusively
might add up to a worthwhile improvement.
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Ryan8bit wrote:
I registered here just to tell you how awesome this is. I had checked out the previous authors attempt, but was sad when he didn't continue it.
Thanks
-When Taloon is collecting the King's request, is it possible for him to walk only one step and encounter? Or would this throw off the random of the drop item?
it is probably possible to do it in every step but this is a trial run. I will do my best in the next version. The problem is that the encounter rate for this chapter is very low (helpful for a non TAS). The odds are very unlikely and at the time I didn't have an effect plan for manipulating this particular type of luck. I do now :) But it will still be pretty tedious.
-I never did the King's request (when not time attacking) because it took a while. Instead, I'd do one of the tricks on that page you linked to, where I'd get the sword of malice at the first shop, not sell it, and later buy a bunch and sell them with Neta. I'd suppose you tried that angle and it took too long?
that would be slower. I tried many methods but that ended up being the fastest. Getting a sword of malice would take awhile since you have to talk to your boss, wait for someone to show up and sell it to you. Then later you have to wing back and forth to buy and sell them. It may not seem like it but buying 14 items takes a very long time but it does (about 4 seconds per item).
-That door trick on that page is intriguing. Would it be of any benefit at Keeleon castle? It would be wild if somehow you could get in there without having to have Orin, although I'd be curious as to what would happen when you need to escape and Orin fends the guards off. It's probably not possible even.
I really hope I can use this glitch in the run. If you notice I pick up the map in hopes of using it. As far as I know this is the only graphic glitch in any NES rpg. (one that allows you to have access to places you shouldn't). As far as Keelon, you don't get it in chp 4 and when you return in chp 5, you can't use it because you have to be able to open the door in order to activate the glitch. (I would have loved to be able to skip the magic key entirely)
Those are just some quick things off the top of my head. I might be able to think of some things later on if I watch in more detail.
I look foward to it.
TheAxeMan wrote:
To kill off Cristo, you could either use the battle for the earrings or just put him in the party against Keeleon and have Keeleon nail him. I hadn't thought about travel doors, but maybe after you get final key there might be one you could use.
Hadn't thought of using him in the keelon fight. Might as well. I left the 4th slot open to try to save time (and make the fight easier to deal with) but this might be better.
Royal Crypt, and you have your 3 hardcore party members. Why not mosey in and whup a metal babble or three, which I think you can get in one fight. The extra levels would really help on Keeleon, and also on Balzack and Bakor, coming up. In particular, Taloon could use a lot more strength since he doesn't have much of a weapon.
actually he has NO weapon! (which is funny since in the keelon battle he trips and his WEAPON hits keelon for a critical!). Also, leveling up isn't necessary. At best it would shave a round off of the battles, but it would cost time for the battle plus the long time it takes to level up.
You need the final key to get to the screen with metal babbles. Also I have to go there eventually anyway, so any leveling I do will be then. Plus I think it look better to defeat these bosses (especially Balzack) at such low levels.
Since you have to walk around so much, would it be worthwhile to get six small medals for a sword of miracles for him? Talking to the king will take some time, but I think you can do this without a whole lot of extra movement. You'll be near his castle to get the zenithian armor anyway.
Using the gates, I can return to mintos, walk right, use final key and gate right to the island. So it wouldn't be much of a detour. So, I wouldn't have to wait until getting the armor. I might try that. So are there six convenient medals, at this point? I don't know where most of them are.
Another thing, for 500 of your 2000 coin prize you can get a wizard ring, which will cover your MP for the rest of the game. May or may not be worthwhile though, depending on how much you actually need it and how easy it is to hit inns when you need to.
AWSOME. I hated that I had to use an Inn before the lighthouse battle. With luck manipulation I could use the ring as much as I wanted to. This will help out a lot later on (i'm definately not going to have enough MP to use return and outside so much). Thanks, this will definatley used in version 2!
I forget, does Santeem show up on the return list in chapter 5? If so, you should step in as you travel by it towards Keeleon.
it does show up on the return list and that would be faster. More time savers!
More on the glitch:
It seems talking to Rosa isn't necessarly, so the glitch will be unnessary there. I haven't tested past the staff of change yet, so there may still be hope.
Also, I really hope I can find some way to reduce the amount of walking and sailing around that seems to be required. Otherwise the zenthian equipment part of this run might not be as interesting as the rest.
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Paulygon wrote:
Are you sure Ragnar still has the Flying Shoes? That's not it's supposed to be, as the shoes are one of a few chapter-specific items (Flying Shoes, Iron Safe, Sphere of Silence) that are removed at the completion of the respective chapter. Anyway, it would appear that particular scenario drops out.
you're right, The last time I played this I used a code that caused me to keep them. IF he still had them they would return to the tower as usual.
Also, I can't get panon yet. You have to go all the way to the king of stancia and then return, get him and return all the way back. Unfortunately, the trip through the castle is very long.
It seems that most everthing is required, very long and tedious, and no way to skip. This chapter is going to be very long!
I tried to warp pools (what are they actually called) They connect some key points in the game but you can't access them because you don't have the boat (or balloon) on the other side.
I'm trying to find ways to minize the amount of sailing around the game, but It's not working out too well.
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My .fcm file has been updated
I have just finished defeating Keelon and gained Ragnar into the party.
Thats a total of 4 boss fights already. Each one can be optimized better, but they are pretty close.
One debate I had was whether or not to kill off Mara in the lighthouse bengal fight. Had I kept her alive, she would have learned outside, saving me time in the upcoming cave (since I didn't have Brey yet). I died to leave the cave but that lost considerable time compared to an outside spell. But I gained time because of the time it would have taken for her to make her boneheaded actions in the fight (could NOT stop her from casting firebal on the flamers!) plus the time saved not leveling her up.
It seems I made the right decision because even in the fight with keelon, all characters gained experience (I thought that if you don't have the wagon with you, they don't get the expercience). So that means it would level her up again, and then again for every boss fight after. In version 2, I will consider killing off cristo in a random battle so I don't have to level him up either.
As of right now, I am past all the linear parts and am somewhat lost as what order to do things. Any ideas?
some of mine so far:
-Get panon while I'm nearby
-wait to go to stacia until i'm near izmut
-Defeat Balzaack II soon (return to endor and sail west) in order to get magma staff.
-Use flying shoes (yes ragnar still has them) to quickly get to izmut instead of sailing around the continent. Even after climbing the tower and jumping off, I think I will save time.
Unfortunately that all I have, I'll have to do some FAQ reading before going any further.
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Amazing, I would have never thought this game could be completed to fast. I can't wait to see the final version! (any chance it could be 17 minutes 8 seconds faster?)
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Fro Jackson wrote:
edit: Can you even use tactics right now?
yes
I think "try out" is the best chance to use the silver tarot cards, but they really aren't useful except for xp doulbing.
The only other positive outcomes are:
bikill - useless when everyone gets criticals, actually it prevents the chancde of them
surround - basically useless since I manipulate missed attacks
healusall - healing shouldn't be necessary here
expel - somewhat useful but hero has it anyway
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Just thought I would update my progress. I've defeated the imposters. It was a royal pain in the ass until I realized I could use Expel!
Right now I'm fighting the Lighthouse bengal. My 1st battle with the games brilliant AI! What makes it worse is that I have mara and nara. Two spell casters really makes things difficult. To top it off, mara (on normal setting) only wants to cast FIREBAL on the FLAMERS. Needless to say, the spell does not work!
Expel works on the flamers thought. So I will try have my hero cast expel the 1st two rounds while trying to get my party to fight the lighthouse bengal. Which will be difficult since the AI has a knack for attacking the same enemy the hero.
I will update my WIP once I defeat them.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
some useful info:
Hr: lv 7 only basic equipment (copper sword, basic clothers)
spells: expel, healmore, return, firebal
Nara: lv 1, heal spell, silver tarot cards (if I can get her to use them)
Mara: lv 8, fire bal, blaze, return, outside
Hector: always insists on building up power!
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wow
I began working on ch. 5 and I went through the tunnel, and amazingly I got the 2000 coins without trying! I was planning on skipping it but I might as well take it!
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I had to ommit the glitch for the sake of the faster time. If you notice I am knocked down by 1 hook instead of 2 jabs. Unfortunately, the glitch only works on the jabs
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also on the PC version you had a fast foward button. I'm not familiar with the SNES version but if it has this feature or the rate drop increase I would strongly suggest you use that version as it reduce the length of this run considerably.
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The doulble or nothing would be easier to manipulate, I was suggesting getting a royal flush for entertainment value, If I got the 2000 coins that would mean I could bet a 100 coins (max for 1 pot) and the payout for the Royal would be 50,000 just enough for the shield. The shield isn't necessary though. Id probably get a pair of staffs of jubilation for nara & mara if anything.
Unfortunately you can't sell the shield or any other useful Item from the casino.
The only on is the magic potion which lands you a wooping 23 gold.
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if I remember correctly, the ballon is necessary to take panon to stacia
leveling up shouldn't be necessary until esturk (possibly not then either)
What about the casino. Metal babble armor or a meteorite armband would be nice, plus it would be awsome to manipulate luck and catch 4 aces or a royal flush! That would only net me 1000 coins though (I would only be able to buy 2 coins) so I would still have to play the double or nothing.
Anyway thanks for the info. Right now I will concentrate on getting the boat. Then maybe try to sort out all of the tasks and plan some kind of a route. Any suggestions would be nice.
Also, in chapter 4, I missed a chance to use death to get out of atemko cave quicker. That cost me about 30 seconds. So it looks like the 1st four chapters can be completed in under 52 minutes! I probably can get to the boat at about the hour mark.
My estimation at this point is that the entire run (version 2) will end up at just under 2 1/2 hours.
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Chapter 4 complete! (check my site)
this one was WAAAAAAY easier than chapter 3!
total running time 1:03 making this chapter 10min and the shortest one.
The battle with Balzack could have been one round shorter with better optimization. Other than that I think its optimized. I reach and defeat balzaack at lv 1. I use the tarot cards to double xp's and kill off nara. That way mara gets enough levels to get the return spell without wasting time leveling up nara (won't use her anyway except possibly for the above mentioned xps gathering).
This makes brey even more useless, looks like i'll be killing him off in version 2!
any, that brings me to my next request
HHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEELLLLPPPP!!!!
Chapter 5 is going to be a bitch and I am not nearly as familiar with it (I tend to get quit playing the game after I unite all the characters)
Any help with route planning would be of great help.
also what Items & boss fights can be skipped?
Can you skip getting any of the heros? (I doubt it but I've never tried)
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i like it so far, but you need to break more stuff!!
-luck can be manipulated to get more paper refills
-you can knock down trees and break the oval-looking thing on the cement walls (I don't know how to describe it better than that)
I think the training course should be omitted. You did a great job getting every target but still, It was only mildly entertaining. Certainly not enough to warrant almost doubling the length of this movie.
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TheAxeMan wrote:
Since you have such great control of luck, I was wondering if you had thought about the Tarot cards or maybe even the chance spell? Most of the useful effects might be negated by bosses, but if not then they will give you some pretty amazing power. Chance would require quite a few levelups though.
I don't plan on leveling up enough to get chance
but I do plan on using the silver tarot cards. If i'm not mistaken, one of the effects is an XP doulbler. There's two possiblilities for this:
1) Kill 1 king metal + xp doulber = insane level up in one fight
2) xp doubler + boss fights = maybe leveling up via king metal not necessary at all.
no. 2 seems the most attractive to me aesthetically. So far I've only fought 2 battles for the purpose of leveling up (including ch 4) It would be nice I it were not necessary for the enitre ch 5!
Also, I ran across an interesting glitch:
http://www.woodus.com/den/games/dw4nes/tips.php
This might have some useful applications.
