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ledauphinbenoit wrote:
After fooling a bit with this game
I'm glad to hear that, please continue to do so :)
You can't avoid battles in caves, meaning you must fight multiple/many times.
I have stumbled upon this as well. You can manipulate things buy waiting on the overworld before going into the cave. That manipulates the random encounter order. Though the odds of finding a scenario what avoids all battles is very unlikely especially in longer caves like the 6th orb cave. Also, while in a cave if you cast a heal spell which will change the rng and give you a different battle order, though not everytime :(
The battles are very pre-set before they start. Turn-order, damage amounts, criticals, etc. Although character choices do effect one another (ex: if two chars both attack the same enemy there may be a difference for char 2's damage, or char 2 might get a critical)
it is SLIGHTLY more manipulatable than that. Parry changes the outcome as well as the Parry/fight "glitch". Not just the amount of damage but also it can affect battle order. If your hero attacks monster 1 he might go first in battle, but if he attacks monster 2 he might go 2nd, or if he casts heal he might go last. While this isn't much help, it is enough to ensure a proberly leveled, or slightly low-leveled party can survive battles.
However, since you don't have to fight a boss until Orochi, you could get to a leveling area (around Dharma) pretty quickly.
you are forgetting about the 2nd kandar fight (the 1st one is not required). Though you can get to Dharma before fighting Kandar so your point is still made.
The main problem with bosses is their HP regenerations (a very nasty feature of DW games that began here). This is a nightmare for low-level party's.
[/quote]
I'm doubtful an all fighter party could win. If you can't guarantee crits, you would have to heal. Otherwise Explodet would cream them. (remember this is after fighting through the castle battles e.g. Stone Hulks w/o being able to heal) [/quote]
If this game was manipulatable like the other DW games then this party would be a no-brainer. Under these circumstances you are very right. A wizard will be a must since he will be able to do the most damage at the low-est levels which is very necessary to combat HP regeneration. At this time I am not sure what the other 2 characters would be.
In the end, a TAS would not look like the other DWs. It would be much more like something on speeddemosarchive.
This is what I am afraid of :(
That is, unless there is a way to manipulate the randomness to do what you want it to.
or to manipulate is more than we think we can at the moment. I encourage you & others to look into this some more. At this point any little thing can make a big difference in this run.
For instance, I had completely dismissed the possibility of doing this run until I discovered that I can avoid overworld battles. That cuts a potential run of this game down about 1hr. You never know, perhaps there is more that can be done to manipulate battles.
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Posted on Gamefaqs board:
From: snakenamedjoe | Posted: 2/26/2006 4:00:33 PM | Message Detail
I had always avoided casting robmagic on enemies who had cast bounce. I figured it would do nothing because you would steal MP from yourself so you would gain the same amount as you lose. In the necrogond tunnel I accidentally cast robmagic on a king tortragond who had cast bounce. My sage had 43 MP at the time. It restored her all the way to full - 107 MP - with one spell! I tried it the next round with my mage and it took her from 112 to 163 (not quite full). It doesn't work if you cast it on your own party member with bounce on, but that is a great way to restore MP!
wow, didn't know about this trick. This trick could possibly have useful applications in a TAS.
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another factor, though much smaller:
damage animation takes longer (at least in DW4), so every damage tile stepped on without the erdricks armor will cost some frames
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/856/MM%20VII%20Guybrush%20%26%20Adelikat%20Bass%20defeated.smv
here is the intro level with Bass defeated. Unfortunately we are tied with Tinister up this point.
It is of interest to note that megman walks to a scrpted place after the fight, but it is not faster to already be in that position (unfortunately for me since I took great pains to place megaman there in my test runs!)
Also if you are on the right of Bass, megaman will go onto the right side of the screen instead of the left, but that ends up slower because he has a greater distance to walk to the center in order to teleport off the screen
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*picks jaw up off of the floor
*votes yes
I can't believe you squeezed ANOTHER 8 seconds out of this game :O
The "moon walking" was priceless (I assume it is a L+R thing)
BTW, I love watches in wall climb in these movies, I never get tired of it :)
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no, it always appears under romaly, (though if you give it time it will sail closer to portoga) the fastest method it to obtain the thighbone & immediately return to romaly and sail south.
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ledauphinbenoit wrote:
adelikat wrote:
Yes to get the town to grow fully, all you have to collect the red, greed, blue, and purple orbs.
Actually, I think it is dependent on killing the Orochi (purple orb) and killing the king of Samanao for the staff of change. So, picking up the yellow orb would be done before getting the sailor's thighbone near greenland.
Of course, it would be totally awesome if you could manipulate things so that you knew where the phantom ship was, and could board it from the shoreline somewhere. You'd need to know the details of the rom regarding the ship and its movement. But that doesn't alleviate the need to kill the Boss Troll to get the yellow orb. That's too bad, because if you could get to the ship that way, you could "skip" Samanao, the cave with the mirror of ra, and greenland all together.
the ship always appears around romaly, but it will not appear in the game until you obtain the sailors thighbone, you don't have to use it though
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well, I was feeling bored so I actually bothered to watch this famtasia run.
I gotta vote no.
uninteresting game, and it looked improvable (i agree with the above mentioned things)
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I'm going to have to agree with bisqwit. I thought that since it was so short it wouldn't be that boring , but I was wrong. The problem is that it is just one long repeitive race and then it is over, nothing interesting happened.
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I did a quick unoptimized test of level 4 without bombing the orange car and it was a few hundred frames faster (glad I checked!)
So it won't save time in this instance, mainly due to the fact that the track is only 2 laps. tracks 8,16 & 24 will certainly benifit greatly from it. In addition I am considering track 7 & 15. If it always required 10 bombs to make the car speed up then this will limit its usefullness on most of the other tracks.
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JXQ wrote:
All this talk is doing is making people think twice before being honest in their submissions.
1) Old run is Famtasia
2) This run in an improvement of 3:26, which is an extremely significant improvement
If we waited for absolute perfection at all times, nothing would get published. I'm personally surprised at Adelikat's opinion, as he is fronting the Famtasia improvement, and this is exactly the type of run that is fit for it. For me this is a no-brainer publish ASAP.
I voted "yes" for it to be published. And the fact that it could be improved is probably not affecting the publication of this movie. There are a lot of submissions in que.
As far as improvements go, keeping them to yourself isn't the best Idea, but perhaps it is more important to post those on the forums.
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Blublu wrote:
I'm sure it's a nice movie, and without question better than the existing one, but I don't know... 10-30 seconds is quite significant. If I were the author, I would want to improve this before someone else does.
ditto
In fact I have been in the same situation. I made a big improvement in cobra triange. after submitting I found a way to improve it another 10 seconds so I canceled the first one and began the improved one.
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One of the few genesis games that I actually completed. This run was an easy yes vote for me, very entertaining
Glad there was a use for beast, so that the entire game isn't monopolized by the two uber-characters :)
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JXQ wrote:
I hope this isn't discouraging, but I think this would get very old, very fast. However, many others seem to think this would be a great game to TAS, so perhaps I should be ignored.
On the plus side, you did optimize the races well, but I personally would enjoy this game more as a playaround, shooting the computer opponents and such instead of just demolishing them every race.
seriously, read my above post. By using the orange car glitch, I effectively turn 50% of this run into a playaround.
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Tailz wrote:
adelikat: If you want I can make the video for you. Just tell me how you want it done/what scenes you want in it.
Not really sure, I would start by taking all the in between scenes out (and the jogging routines) and see how much more is left. The song itself is only about 4 min, maybe just include like the last 3-4 boxers, with all the in between stuff cut?
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If its improvable then do so! :)
I will vote YES on the game. It is fast paced and doesn't get boring (though I don't really know whats going on)
I will vote meh, since this is a good run but improvable. I would certainly vote yes on an improved version.
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voting a BIG NO on this GAME.
I agree completely with truncated, run, attack, repeat. WAY to repetitive.
Also does anyone see that this is a lame rip off of golden axe. And at least golden axe is shorter. It seems to end before it gets too boring.
The play was good but with only 1372 re-records on a 19min movie, I have a hard time believing it is perfect. But I would vote no on any improved run as well unless somehow 10min was shaved off of it.
I might agree with Phil. Possibly a 2p run, while slower, would be more interesting.
