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but you'll supercede any judgment that is made that you don't agree with (example: Phil's latest SMB submission, after adelikat accepted).
I don't see this as a supceeding. I intentionally left out any mention of where the movie might be published and simply accepted. I left that up to Bisqwit (presumably the publisher in this case) to make that judgement call. Personally I was apathetic to which category it fell in.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2652/TMNT-bigshortcut%28almost%29.fcm
So close to an amazing shortcut. Using the scrolling glitch here takes me from room 02 all the way to the end of room 17 (last room before the boss). This would save me over 8000 frames! The only problem is a end up in a "hole" that I can't get out of. I doubt I can get out but if there was a way to would skip most of lv4 so it is worth checking out.
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Thanks for the comments. I knew that you would spot improvements to my run :)
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Could you get suriken for the first level boss fights? Could taking damage
in the first sewer let you kill bebop with 1 less hit?
In an ideal world I would get shurikens right away and use them for both fights but honestly I couldn't figure out how the random drops work. I would have ran basicbot in a few sections if I could have found the relevant ram address. Maybe I will try again sometime. Shurikens would reduce the bebop and rocksteady fights by 1 hit. Invulnerability time is 48 frames. So that would be a savings 96 minus the cost of manipulating shurkens.
Taking damage for the bebop fight won't help. Bebop has 72hp, don's bo hits for 15 normal and 16 when under health. Either way, it will be 5 hits.
I thought there were some places you could swung a weapon after landing to save frames when there were only 1 or 2 enemies on the screen.
The freakin bo lags so easily. Also, I tested many jumps and often couldn't get anyfurther forward progress by throwing my weapon. I didn't test thoroughly enough to tell if it were due to the type of jump or just lag from throwing the weapon but I could find any difference. Perhaps I should look into this more.
On the second floor of the second level, before the ladder, I think it's faster to jump to the platform instead of falling under it, then you can hit the top chainsaw guy with a suriken faster and also fall down sooner and throw a suriken at him while falling so you get to the next chainsaw guy sooner.
I'm pretty sure you can jump over to that platform.
For the water part you should switch to leo first and mike last, this way when mike dies after getting missiles it will switch to don without having to do it yourself.
Doh! You're right about that one. This would result in about 45 frames of improvement.
When going up or comin down next to a wall you can move over the wall a little bit when you first come to it and you'll be partly in the wall so can you be a little farther forward when you come out of it.
I couldn't get this to happen in the water section :/
For example this should be done after getting the second bomb and coming down. This same concept works on the normal levels of the game and overheard view.
At the 2nd bomb it wouldn't matter as you will hit the wall under that one, negating the savings.
When you enter the first building of level 3 I think you should kill the first enemies instead of getting hit.
This isn't to save time but to get exactly 7 health in order for the flying head to kill me. I couldn't get it down exactly in the water level because everything does 16 damage, meaning I can only have 16 when the level ends. The first enemy of this level does 9 damage which leaves me 7, the exact amount that the flying head does. It's beautiful how perfectly those numbers worked out ;) (note: The kight does 16 damage when he is in his full body, and his fire breath does 12 damage)
If you could get tripple or single suriken in the first building it would save time where hit the mech knight.
Once again, that might be wishful thinking. If I had them, It would save about 50 frames. So as long as I could manipulate them in less than that, it would save time. I guess I need to learn how the drops work.
In the next building I wonder if actually killing the fire guy (first hit use suriken) before the ladder would be faster so that you can jump before the fall to the ladder.
I tried. The invulnerability time of enemies (48 frames) prevents me from killing him without losing time. The time loss is greater than simply jumping over him.
In the 3rd building I think it would be faster to kill the second fire guy with suriken first hit instead of running into him.
Nope, I tested both ways. Taking damage was faster. Also, I need to take damage so that I can kill the next boss faster. Not getting hit here would mean taking one more hit else where (slower) or on the boss, resulting in having to hit him one more time. (Note, shurikens do 18 normal while doing 20 when under %50).
If you suriken the mech knight you could hit it sooner and not have to wait on the head as long.
I assume you mean the one during the rope section. I hit him when I do to manipulate him to be in the right place later. This section has far too many variables so I likely didn't do it optimally. But I did spend a long time on it and the run shows the best scenario of all my versions.
In room 2, at the first ladder down, if you face right when the screen scrolling down then hold left you will clear the platform below and land all the way on the bottom floor first.
Oh wow, you are right. That should save about 40-60 frames. Cool.
Also, this same concept seems to be useful in many other places. I should always face the opposite to the wall in order to be able to be inside the wall a few pixels. This could save a few frames here and there.
Then when climbing the ladder up you want to be all the way to the right on the ladder.
I am pretty sure that I am.
In room 3 you can jump up the ladder with a mid hight jump if you clip over on the edge, same concept as the jump to get missiles early.
Doh, I am aware of the trick but it didn't occur to me to use it here. Oops :(
For room 6 if you could get the health I would take the spike route.
Not sure this would be faster. Lag is also a major issue here.
Also in room 6 when you kill the boomerage guy with the downward attack while he was above you, if you start that attack in the air you can slide forward on the ground while doing it.
Not possible, you will make contact with him if you do this.
In room 8 you could the mid height jump plus clip to get onto the conveyer built that's moving right towrds the ladder quicker.
My thinking was that it didn't matter here but I forgot to consider the fact that the conveyor belt is moving to the right so I could get extra forward momentum. I suspect the extra momentum would be negated somewhat by extra lag though.
In the spikey wall room you do the middle level differently than the other two, I would think one way would be faster.
Impressive, I thought no one would notice that. ;p It was difficult to test but from what I could tell both methods were exactly the same frames.
In the last level after doing the warp glitch, on the next doorway you should have jumped before falling.
*thunk* Another oversight on my part.
Because of the way bisqwit times these this doesn't save any time but if you kill shredder while he falling he will die much faster and you see the credits sooner.
Arg, don't go and mention something like that. Now people will want me to do it that way ;p This method could mean a longer input time for a shorter avi time.
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*Pretending the existing run doesn't exist:
This run is well... boring. It has the rpg element but without the possibility of insane luck manipulation (which is at least %50 of the entertainment value of such a run). It is like legend of zelda in its "run around and collect items to get to new parts of the game" but without the insane popularity (which in my opinion is the only thing that makes zelda movies so entertaining to people).
As a result, I don't see anything that makes this run extraordinary. Voting No.
*In context of existing run:
1) The current run is very similar to this but minus the tedium of backtracking and collect extra items. The whole begining looks identical. As a result, I see no justification for having both. Multiple runs of a game are for showing off something interesting that can't be shown in just one run.
As a result, I think this run should not be published along side the current one.
2) This run could replace the current one that "breaks the site rules". But the rules were made by bisqwit. They were "broken" by bisqwit. And it is bisqwit who stands apathetic to the issue all together. As a result, I see no reason that the issue should be "fixed" by putting this run on the site instead.
The debate is settled, the "wild warp" cheat is fair game. It would have been nice to have some explanation on why this debugging code is okay and not others but alas...
Sorry for the tedious post, in short I vote No on this run in all possible scenarios.
EDIT:
Sorry to vote no on all your submissions tmont :) I hope it doesn't discourage you. Both submissions are good in technical quality.
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For the record I am voting no. This is an obvious cheat code and therefore breaks the rules of the site. Not that my voting means anything at this point, but still...
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Why can't concept demo be a good thing? "Wow you thought outside the box and did something that doesn't fit the mold (inside the box). As a reward, you get your run into the elite concept/demo section.
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While we are talking about it, Tecmo Superbowl (NES) should be in concept/demos. It doesn't complete the game (that would require playing the entire 19 game season). Instead it just demonstrate a single match.
I agree that megamanx/x2 should definatley be a concept/demo until there are more runs like it. Then perhaps we could have a bigame section.
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Sorry Spider-Waffle, but I have already submitted ;p
Everything you mentioned is done in this submission though I suspect you will find a few ideas after watcing.
Actually, I was hoping to get some feedback from you on the run before I submitted, so free to give suggestions about the submissions. I am open to the possibility of making an improved version should any discoveries be made.
I am using FCEU .16. This version is specifically what I used. That happens to be a patched version that has a macro input function.
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Glad to see this one finished and submitted. Not only is it faster but major style points. "Hmm, these refights sure are boring, how can I make them interesting? Screw it, I will just glitch right past them :P"
Yes vote of course.
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I guess I should have expected many questions about this run. Though I find it interesting that there was very little brought up in Walker's run.
moozooh wrote:
A few notes/questions about the run:
1. Was it possible to take a damage boost in the tall shaft just before the exit to the roof (level 2)?
No. Someone else also mentioned if I could jump up there since it was the same height. The reason it is not possible is because it is more than one tile thick. All the jumps I do make were to 1-tile width ledges. And damage will not boost vertical height.
2. Was it possible not to hit as many corners and such in the underwater level (I guess not, since the controls SUCK, but it's still worth asking)?
This response is to Truncated as well. This level is suprisingly simplistic TAS wise. There is no horizontal acceleration so bumping into corners is irrelevant. Pressing up or down changes the turtle sprite but affects NOTHING about his movements or even his collision detection. I assure you this part is optimal. In fact it is identical to Walkers (which is also optimal) except for getting to the center of two bombs quicker. Also, taking damge does cost 1 frame. I do take an extra hit near the end for a quicker death in lv 3.
3. Is it generally feasible not to try getting more horizontal speed while falling under the corners?
Nope. Makes no difference in this game, simply because there is no horizontal acceleration.
5. At least at one point in level 4 (I think), it looked like taking a damage boost would be faster.
Where? It is possible, but also keep in mind that minimizing lag (which can be bad in this game) dictated much of my actions.
AceofShades wrote:
The only thing that I had to wonder about was in level four: I believe it was on the screen right after the rope-throwing part where you wait for a laser to pass before climbing down a ladder. Is there no way to manipulate this to prevent the laser from being fired? Otherwise I'd assume there's a reason you don't take damage from it, whether it's slower or whether you needed the health for later.
There is a way to manipulate that but it would a) cost more in lag b) manipulating a different enemy group, but that would be way slower.
Also, taking a hit was slower in this instance. Actually, the delay is quite minimal there.
I hope that answers all questions brought up.
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Cool. A few seconds sounds pretty good, hope you stick with it and complete the run. That is one of our famtasia runs, so improving it will be welcomed.
And welcome to the TAS world :)
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JXQ wrote:
tmont wrote:
I did a run of this game because I thought it would be fun to optimize. Also, I like making maps. I didn't even realize it was on the list of ideas until a couple weeks ago. It wouldn't particularly break my heart if the run got rejected, because I already got my satisfaction out of it. I just thought I'd give it a chance to see if it was worth publishing.
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Boco wrote:
hopper wrote:
Morimoto's incessant circling around every frigging space ship was so boring that I had to watch most of the run in fast forward. The first level of this run is pretty boring, too. I think you probably have to kill everything in a Gradius run. 100% kills would be more interesting than spinning around the enemies and letting them scroll off of the screen.
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This was on the list of ideas? that is reason enough to not assume that a run on this list will get accepted.
After a second look, I'd like to change my vote no. The game itself makes me laught, but a playthough of this game is not interesting. I just don't think it makes a good contribution to the site.
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Well, it is about time to post a WIP of my progress. For those who don't know, Baxter managed to convince me to do a run of this game :p
I am at the beginning of the water stage and am 375 frames ahead of the current published run.
A new, bizarre glitch was used to save time on boss fights. While in the air, pressing up+down+right+b for two frames, you glitch the sprite data of your character and create a "floating weapon" on the screen that can damage enemies. For don, this is a sprite of leo's sword. The weapon will last until you press B again.
Also, I took damage early on in order to get the damage boost to don's attacks. When your energy is under %50, your attacks are more powerful. This allowed me to kill all of the bosses so far in less hits, which saves 48 frames per hit saved.
There are lot's of tricks posted by spider-waffle that should saved even more time.
Please feel free to leave comments & suggestions.
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I did read you submission text when you submitted. You said "Faster than Pom's" which would imply you were intending to obsolete.
I can't be responsible for not reading submission text that you add later. :p
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Zurreco wrote:
What about when people vote for someone's work just because that specific runner did it?
That is an entirely different issue. And you can watch the entire movie and still do that.
I don't want to name any names, but it feels like that is what AngerFist did in this submission. If he saw it beforehand, or something, that's cool and I apologize for bringing it up, but it seems in bad taste to approve a run so quickly without possibly having not seen it.
I know that he did see a wip(s0 of this beforehand.
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Clearly there is no debate that this movie should be published and clearly no one other than Phil thinks it should obsolete Pom's movie (sorry dude, but they are just too different).
The only real debate was about the concept/demo's section. This probably stems from the fact that no one really understands what it is specifically for. I thought my interpretation of it would suggest that a movie like this be in it. JXQ's post made me think that I really had no interpretation at all since I really couldn't answer any of his questions.
So...
I am accepting this run and letting Bisqwit decide WHERE the published run properly goes. I request some clarification of the concept/demo's if it is placed there (or even if it is not).
Also, I love the suggestion of level selecting and then beating the game. If that could have been done and still be faster than Pom.... oh man that would have been awsome.
