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Jammer01 wrote:
Well, the coinless TAS certainly isnt going to be submitted to this site, its done using only 8 directions. I have thought about doing cappless and cannonless, but wouldn't it be slightly more fun to do capless, cannonless, and coinless? Can you even get 70 stars like that? Regardless, I can always just blj up the endless stairs at the end to finish up, but it would be cool if there are at least 70 of them. I'll probably do that this summer.
I doubt CCCless would be as great.... I mean, the best part of a CCless run would be some of the zany out-of-the-way methods you would need to get some of the stars (which may not be the fastest stars and may require coins...)
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Capless, cannonless is truely an interesting challenge. The techniques and tricks used for many of the stars are unusual. A coinless run is something I don't think needs to be kept track of though. I guess the main challenge with capless, cannonless is knowing whether one has truely obtained every star they could possibly get. Though 113 (if you use the chuckya glitch) seems pretty reasonable.
But, I agree the important Mario 64 runs are:
Minimum (16 Star) Run
and
Maximum (120 (or 121 star if you want to be picky about the final large star) run)
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Cool glitches, could the bobomb thing be used to obtain additional coins?
About the coinless run, I'd much rather see you doing a capless, cannonless run -- that would be much more interesting. Would you consider doing this next?
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A decent run. I found the warp barrel usage to be tedious to watch but, it makes sense to use them when going for the absolute fastest run (a non-warp barrel run would be nice... atleast one that doesn't just use them to finish the level quickly and not come back... I guess the 105% run would take care of it).
Two things:
1. Can you get 105% without doing that TUFSTF (or whatever it was) code? You made it sound like if you just don't collect the midway barrels that you'll get 105%, if that's true I never knew that (and wasn't aware that it was possible).
2. I recall skipping a large section of the opening animation (with Dixie and Kiddy spinning on that wheel) by pressing a button (don't recall which one, sorry, but I think it was either A or start) at the correct frame. I only managed it once or twice but I always tried for it again after I got it to work once. Be sure to check on this before you do your 105% (and, maybe it could be hexedited in).
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Burning Death wrote:
I've uploaded some more videos of the current SF64 champion Dimitrij Jarowoj and 2 videos of Winfried Merdes. ATTN: The players/videos are aiming for the best score and NOT fastest time.
You could find them all here: http://www.superplayers.de/other/dimi/
Playthrough - 2345 Hits (305-478-230-315-269-511-237) (by Dimi)
Sector Y - 305 Hits (by Dimi)
Fortuna - 93 Hits (by Dimi)
Katina - 264 Hits (by DarkPlayer)
Aquas - 218 Hits (by Dimi)
Solar - 180 Hits (by Dimi)
Zoness - 406 Hits (by Dimi)
Titania - 299 Hits (by Dimi)
Macbeth - 306 Hits (by DarkPlayer)
Sector Z - 118 Hits (by Dimi)
Venom - 303 Hits (by Dimi)
Training Mode - 101 Hits (by Dimi)
Have fun :) !
Why don't you guys just look earlier in this thread for info. on the WR (non-TAS) path .... including a video! sheesh...
PS: This game should have a high-score TAS; going for time is ridiculous.
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Hmm, I just got through Hidden Palace Zone one very quickly, I never went in that first tube... I was able to run up that really steep hill and run along the top of the screen, hopping up several steps that I couldn't see. This hack definitely needs some work. I played Dust Hill Zone 1 as well and was quite unimpressed with that level :(
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nitsuja wrote:
Tompa (paraphrased) wrote:
Has anyone ever thought about making this TAS on the SNES version? Pressing left and right at the same time makes Mario run backwards at full P speed, even if swimming underwater.
I think somebody should look into this more. It's actually a pretty neat bug that will drastically change the gameplay in a way that's fun to watch (i.e. since you don't have to gain a full P meter, you're no longer limited to staying on the ground as much as possible, and there are more options for movement). Unfortunately the SNES version has much longer startup time and transitions between levels, but the actual levels will each be considerably faster (like 2 to 10 seconds faster per level except for autoscrollers or 'leftscrollers').
EDIT: So much for that idea, I guess. Carry on, I still want to see this 100% or warpless run done... the current one really needs improving.
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Yeah, that seems like the best option (glitching into the chimney). I just got through the door in the lower cabin and fell straight down to my death (thanks to Myles for his tip on how to get in). The trick is to give the mother her child penguin and then pick it up and have her chase after you, get her close to the door and drop the child and then jump between her and the door to glitch through. I only did this once so it certainly doesn't prove anything about it being impossible but I'd chalk it up to "unlikely" at this point... so, we'll probably need to find a way to glitch in through the chimney (possibly using both little penguins somehow?).
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getting the star for just going down the slide would allow you to get the Snowman's big head star (I believe)... anyway, I'm assuming it's possible to kick your way back up the slide without getting a coin. I can't think of any particular point that would make it impossible.
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Glitching into either the upper or lower cottage could allow you to get the next 3 coinless stars... if you get into the lower cottage you could jump+kick your way all the way up the slide (being careful to avoid coins... that would be quite a feat!).
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FODA wrote:
Thanks, i am happy to hear that, i would just like to add that even in a 3d world, to move from point A to point B still is drawn as a straight line. And i'm not gonna stress every combination of keypresses possible just to see which one is fastest, i'll figure it out and optimize.
And only few runs in the site can be considered perfect, for the most of them, i said they look perfect. So can this one, as long as we work together. It may not be the fastest possible, but at least nobody knows how to make it faster, that's the objective.
You are a long, long (LONG) way from ever achieving a movie that no-one knows how to improve with a 120 star run in Mario 64. I mean, just look at the 16 star run, we already know how to improve it by a considerable number of seconds (see my comments in the automatically generated 'vote to publish' topic ... also, the backwards long-jump trick is obviously not used everywhere it could be. In any case, good luck and I will be there to make comments as you go along. I watched the test run and had many, many comments I could make (a quick example is on the Princess secret slide, do the turn backwards trick while on the slide, not before... run into the right wall as the slide begins to turn left) but I really don't have the time considering how unpolished it was (I know that is what you were going for, I'm just saying)... as you begin developing the actual run and posting WIPs, I will be able to comment on specific things that I see (and so will others). I look forward to your journey and helping, by way of constructive criticism, along the way in any way I can.
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Perhaps not the same thing but it does mean that forcing a "63% rule" is somewhat arbitrary... in any case, no matter what controller you have, you can force it to be aligned to allow 100% in any direction (and realign real-time to get 100% in other directions). So, I really dont' think there is any other position one can take in this community other than allowing 100%.
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Pyrolistical wrote:
Well, since you can use the start + L + R trick on a real control, consider this.
If we slowed down time, then a person should be able to constantly use the start + L + R trick to effectively have 100% (or even more) in direction of joy stick.
Since it is not impossible to do it on a real controler, I don't see any problem doing it on a emulator.
We are in fact using emulators as a tool right? It says so at the top of the main page!
This is exactly what I was thinking. And, btw, this trick is used often at www.the-elite.net and is known as "cruise control" (of course they don't switch it all the time like you could on emu)... now my question is, could you make the adjustments without losing frames? I hope so, because doing a TAS with constantly having to readjust the stick throughout the run would turn a lot of potential runners off to the N64.
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Pyrolistical wrote:
DeHackEd wrote:
mupen64 and I have waged war for quite some time now. This latest battle is to get a high quality AVI made, suitable for publication. Hint hint.
No timeframe though, but here's hoping for a matter of hours.
...
http://dehacked.2y.net/BT/torrents/supermario64-tas-16stars-spezzafer.avi.torrent
An AVI of this run for bittorrent download. It might become the one published if Bisqwit gives it the thumbs up. If not, at least all you users who can't watch it will now be able to.
I had to thoroughly abuse frame dropping on this one.
What sort of problems are you having? I did some test recordings using the built in AVI capture and it seemed to work just fine. Using Xvid at 780kbps at 640x480, I could record this whole run at 1/4 frame rate, or in about 64 mins.
How do you slow it down? I did it in realtime and had to do it at 320x240 ... used DivX on fast encoding. The result was 270MB and can be dl'd from my server here:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/random/Mario64_TAS_1637.avi
Unfortunately, I did this for the original version so I had to jump for the star and didn't realize at first... in any case, it's here for those who want it. I would like to know how to encode not in real time though!
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Spezzafer, thank you for your reactions to my crits. One thing it seems you didn't address though was:
"Bowser 2, I'm pretty sure doing Martin's strat of long jumping along the rim of the lava and then hopping straight into the funnel would be faster. "
Did you experiment with this at all? What do you think?
Again, excellent run.
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Further questions/criticisms about the run:
To the top of the fortress:
The jump up to the main platform off of the steep wall seems slower than in the previous star. Also, is grabbing the ledge before getting the star actually faster than waiting to not have to grab the ledge?
Blast away the wall, could you have avoided picking up those 3 coins? They count up quickly but... still wastes time in the hi score screen (unless it takes extra time to avoid them).
Bowser 1, could you have avoided the cold coins you collected? Also, could you have done a quick turn (side flip to dive) off of the exclamation block? The turn seemed slower than it would have to be.
Could you have switched the order of obtaining the 4th/5th red coins by long jumping to the spike island as soon as the fenced section ended? I'm almost positive this would have been faster.\
Shining atop the pyramid: I have gotten this star by jumping straight to it, avoiding that little slide hop you do. Is your method somehow faster? I don't see why it would be.
In the Talons of the Big Bird, avoid coins? btw, let me know if there is some magic number of coins that, under that number, you do not waste time at the high score menu.
MIPS, when you catch him, if you had angled towards the door as you caught him, you wouldn't have wasted time turning right after the star appeared.
Spiral stairs, jump through the floor: You definitely ran into the wall and shuffled against it after getting through the floor... looks clumsy and slowed you down. Right after that you should have waited to start backwards long jumping, that seems like it took extra time rather than just running to the stairs and then starting.
Bowser 3, after you did that unbelievable almost impossible jump were you unable to avoid running in place for a few moments?
note: Did you long jump off of a bob-bomb near the end? It sure sounded like it, if so - wow.
Again, awesome run but I am just trying to say everything I say that could make it perfect.
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I'm not sure why I don't seem to be able to vote for this (must still be considered a lurker? I dunno, I contributed strategies and have done an Outrun run for the Genesis but it desynched so I never submitted).
Anywho, this is an excellent first stab at Mario 64 16 stars. I would definitely vote yes but with the understanding that this movie should be obsoleted by a more precise run. I saw several points that were likely inefficient:
Board Bowsers sub (great job getting up there) slow down seemed to not be minimized and swimming angles a bit questionable.
Bowser 2, I'm pretty sure doing Martin's strat of long jumping along the rim of the lava and then hopping straight into the funnel would be faster.
Was jumping backwards so that you had to run in place for a moement on the first MIPS glitch really necessary?
Opening the Bowser 2 door, I think you could save some frames by being in the middle when activating the door so Mario doesn't have to walk so far.
There are other things as well, I just mentioned a few. Anyway, my criticims are minor. There may be some as of yet unexplored strats as well. (btw, I saw what appeared to be several unoptimized 180 degree turns).
In any case, I definitely have to hand it to Spezzafer for nailing that nearly impossible jump on Bowser 3!! amazing :)
*Edit, I can vote now, yippee*
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All, I can't believe this but I just learned that Martin committed suicide... he was a key partner in this project and also a friend. I am absolutely shocked and am also mad, at him and at myself for not trying to be more helpful to him.
if you would like to voice your reactions and see those of others, the topic is here:
http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1131901120
Maybe someday I will begin a TAS of mk64 in his honor -- it's something that I know was important to him.
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Atma wrote:
here is a potential idea for you spezzafer, if you have to board the sub to open bowsers second level. It would seemingly avoid the lag present in your current movie, which would save a small amount of time.
EXCELLENT FIND! btw, Spezzafer, please test getting on the back of the sub as well instead of making the steps appear (you can swim right up to the fin/propellar end and hop up).
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Bag of Magic Food wrote:
It starts out behind, then the water moves back when you board Bowser's sub.
Good point. In any case, I don't see a way to get back there... and, unless one is found I don't think there is a way to load the area behind the second Bowser key door to go upstairs. Of course, this may all unravel at some point but I doubt it and also kind of hope not since a 16 star run remains interesting to watch while something as glitched as what I just mentioned may not be as enjoyable.
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spezzafer wrote:
if that route to the lava/desert world room is faster (and it looks to be) then I'll keep it in store
As Maza mentioned, the path would actually make going to Hazy Maze Cave first a smarter option than LLL. Since you come out right next to the HMC door, that would surely make the path better, I think. (the one I demonstrated in this video: http://www.people.virginia.edu/~avw6s/random/AlternateBasement4.wmv).
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NrgSpoon wrote:
As far as finishing with less than 16 stars goes, I could see it being possible if you find a way to get through the star doors before each Bowser level, since the keys will both be required. It been shown that with the backwards long jump trick, you can turn slightly and start heading in a new direction. (The example I saw went up the infinite stairway, then quickly turned and reached all the way to the clock.) So, if you can find a way to build enough speed on the smaller staircases, a run with less than 16 stars just might be possible.
Again, see my previous post:
DeHackEd is correct -- Any talk of completing the game with under 16 stars is extremely unlikely because you need 16 stars to open the Bowser 2 level and you need the Bowser 2 key to trigger that level load. Maybe you could glitch those somehow, but I really doubt it.
Good luck getting the Bowser 2 key without getting 16 stars, the methods often mentioned are misinformed. The true method would involve glitching into the Bowser2 level before making it appear (it comes up from the ground) -- it's much less likely to happen than ppl think.
