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Nibelung wrote:
Let's wait his reply to confirm this. I really think that he's saying that's possible to avoid all checkpoint barrels.
I finished the list of all Bear coins on the 5 first wolrds. They have a total of 78 coins, and i have 46 in my way (no need of slow or backtrack). Going back after K3 allow me to give blue's present too. :)
Probly tomorrow i'll post a new lake orangatanga WIP. I Hate TAS Doorstop Dash >.<
Actually, Kroxien was correct, I meant that those barrels that were unavoidable did not count against your percentage. Now, I realize that seems absurd but I'm just telling it as I remember it. This is not something I've personally done, just something I remember reading. I am fine with you entering the code but I would also vote for a movie that were faster than yours and didn't use the code but still managed 105% and I would consider your movie obsolete at that point rather than a different category (played on hardest setting). That is just my personal opinion though.
Keep up the good work on the TAS though :)
EDIT: I actually thought of a way to avoid that half-way point though. What if you finished the course first and then used Start -> Select to exit the course after the bonus but before the barrel? Now, this suddenly makes entering the code a faster alternative but it also means that no code was needed to get 105%, something that (in my opinion) is more interesting). It would be something people aren't used to and would give you more obstacles and allow more exciting moments of avoidance....
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I will use Toad with one character and Bowser with the other... and that is my issue with 2-player GP, actually -- I keep forgetting that both characters have to finish (too bad one player can't retire).
So, actually, I've come back to the realization that this really has to be a 2-player Vs. TAS. That way, when one player is done, the race is over. I suppose the goal would then be to complete 3 laps on every race in the game.
For the record:
When the game begins,
Every track is available
Every character is available
You can play on 50, 100 or 150cc on any track
Every battle level is unlocked
So, really the only thing to acquire is trophies and Extra (mirror) mode. Of course, mirror mode is interesting in that Toad's Turnpike has traffic coming at you :).
Still, it makes using 2-player Vs. reasonable as a means of playing every course on the fastest mode.
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I have decided my goal is to the Special cup on 2-player GP, 150cc and beat it as fast as possible. This could, potentially be a published movie as it defeats the game as fast as possible (I would see the ending). Of course, a full movie would involve Gold Trophy's on each cup in 150cc (atleast that's what seems reasonable to me). But, that will have to wait for soft resets to be recordable since the celebrations would be far too long.
Again, I am waiting for someone to address my request in the previous post; thanks.
If it weren't for the fact that both players need to finish to advance....
My Estimated Times would be:
DKJP: 20"5
YV: 27"9
BC: 5X"XX
RRd: 1'5X"XX
For a Total Time of under 4 minutes before the ceremony begins, that's significantly faster than the RRd non-sc 3lap
I guess it may make more sense to do single level runs in 2 player VS so that I can move on to the next track right away... Any thoughts?
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curtmack wrote:
Weatherton wrote:
The Rainbow Road (RRd) video shows a method of tricking the game into thinking you have completed a lap but still putting you back where you jumped from. The specifics of it are not completely understood but it was discovered quite a while ago.
This is what I always heard (please note that I did not make the game nor have I disassembled the cartridge or decompiled the ROM, I'm just stating what I understand to be the case based on my knowledge of the glitches and the circumstances under which they occur):
1. When you drive backwards across the finish line, the game sets some sort of flag that prevents it from counting the lap when you cross it the normal direction again.
2. The game's internal finish line extends quite a distance in either direction of the visible finish line. That way it will still give you a lap if you are off the course. Note, however, that this internal finish line is still not infinite in length.
(For those of familiar with the Choco Island lap skip in the original SNES Mario kart, it works by driving backwards around this internal finish line by driving out into the ocean and veering at the last possible second)
3. Lakitu has a series of "drop-off points" throughout every course. When you fall, he will drop you off at the nearest drop-off point to where you last touched the track before you fell.
(This is how the Frappe Snowland lap skip works; since the snow is not considered on track, you can get a quick lap by driving straight from the wooden bridge onto the snow, crossing the finish line to get one lap, then veering out to get picked up by Lakitu, where you'll be dropped off on the bridge in good time for another lap)
That was reasonably well explained and is about the extent to which we understand these types of shortcuts to occur. However, there is a much more complex version of the Frappe Snowland fastlap shortcut that involves going backwards after crossing the finish line, your described process could still be valid for this but it seems a bit different.
In any case, I am prepared to begin this TAS. My only request is that somone help me out on getting started. I did a TAS for Outrun on the genesis and had very frustrating desyncing issues that may have been related to me incorrectly rerecording. Could someone please post here with a link to the newest version of rerecording Mupen, the settings I should use and a step by step on how to re-record with it? Also, what are some handy tips for avoiding overwriting my work?
My plan is to choose a cup and go through it on VS GP mode, the quality of the play will be impressive but not perfect. This is a trial run.
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Nibelung wrote:
TUFST don't eliminates only the DK barrels, but too the checkpoints barrels. Then i was thinking... Just avoiding the barrels don't allow me to reach 105%? It's impossible because some bonuses throw you exactly over a checkpoint barrel.
I was actually under the impression that those you were forced to hit did not matter. I really distinctly remember reading that. I know it would be a bear to test but I really think you should. It would probably be more interesting to not input the code as well.
If the entry in that (Valley of Bowser 2 (key) ) is possible, that could be used many other places. Especially because floors tend to be much more full of danger than ceilings... though that could make for some boring levels if used more than necessary.
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SectionX wrote:
Weatherton wrote:
I was really excited to see this movie but I had to vote "meh" after watching it. I think it was a great proof of concept but it just wasn't terribly enjoyable to watch. Some of this was not the runner's fault (like pause emulation issues and no soft resets) but it still resulted in having a less than stellar viewing experience for me.
My main issues were:
Low-heart beeping really got old and I wouldn't care if you lost a frame or two to pick some up some just so I could actually listen. I can attribute this to needing to die to reset but... still annoying.
Enough new techniques are already known to create a new, much improved movie from.
TSA is running a really good segmented speedrun
Note: It would be a different story if this runner had developed many of the techniques and sequence breaks in this movie, but I know that a whole community was involved in this long before the run began. I think that should be described in the comments for the run as well.
it's been said time after time that the new things were discovered while he was completing it, so why mention it?
Because they weren't discovered afterwards. I don't know, I think if this wasn't ZELDA many would be singing a different tune. I'm very thankful for the run but I just can't whole-heartedly agree to its being published. Again, I voted "meh" not "no"...
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Rising Tempest wrote:
Nightcom wrote:
nfq wrote:
One thing that can save time on some levels is if you use the Domino control style, because then you can use the second controller to affect things in the cutscenes. For example, it can be used to destroy the screen on Depot, which is one of the missions, on Caverns it can be used to open the door in the elevator, and on Bunker 1 it can be used to attract a guard to open the first door...
I'm sure there are other places where it could be used, I haven't thought much about this. Besides shooting and opening doors, it's also possible to change weapons in the cutscenes.
Jack, I hope you continue the run some day, what you've done so far has been really cool.
That's technically two players, and just a way of playing that I find absurd/extremely dumb for Goldeneye.
I think the person watching couldn't really tell the difference in control style. The 2 controller styles wouldn't be hard to emulate on a keyboard either, I may look into this when a level where it could help comes around.
I think this domino trick should definitely be used. It's another way to go faster, case in point. Also, it helps differenciate the TAS from a speedrun, no one uses Domino in real runs, it's too tricky and would require cruise control too for max speed while turning, I think.
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Nibelung wrote:
I finished the game in non-assisted mode to test the 105% without codes. It's impossible. Some bonus throw you right over the checkpoint barrel.
A question come to my mind when i'm doing the test run. To catch the 105%, i need to enter a secret code, a "cheat". This is a well-know code to everyone that play DKC3, but still be a secret code. I read in somewhere here that codes aren't acepted.
I need to trade my run to a 103% (max without any codes)?
Two things: I'm almost positive the only code you need to enter for 105% is the one to eliminate DK barrels (TUFST) because that is the only code I remember entering to get 105%. Also, I remember reading that you didn't need to enter the code to get 105% -- I think you just had to avoid the DK barrels.
If you check out SDA at: http://speeddemosarchive.com/dkc3.html
You can see that only TUFST is needed for 105% (though, again, I had read that you don't HAVE to enter the code...)
Still, I'm curious what "HARDR" actually does, maybe it makes boss's harder somehow but, otherwise, I didn't notice a difference. I wonder if anyone around here knows what the difference is.
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I was really excited to see this movie but I had to vote "meh" after watching it. I think it was a great proof of concept but it just wasn't terribly enjoyable to watch. Some of this was not the runner's fault (like pause emulation issues and no soft resets) but it still resulted in having a less than stellar viewing experience for me.
My main issues were:
Low-heart beeping really got old and I wouldn't care if you lost a frame or two to pick some up some just so I could actually listen. I can attribute this to needing to die to reset but... still annoying.
Enough new techniques are already known to create a new, much improved movie from.
TSA is running a really good segmented speedrun
Note: It would be a different story if this runner had developed many of the techniques and sequence breaks in this movie, but I know that a whole community was involved in this long before the run began. I think that should be described in the comments for the run as well.
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GuanoBowl wrote:
Its funny, before I started this, I never knew you could initiate the rainbow bridge cutscene with just the 2 medallions.
Also, with the bottle/light arrows trick, how much time could this shave off with all the running around you have to do it make it work?
So what will the next "anything goes" run utilize? Is the path posted anywhere?
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AKA wrote:
Kitsune wrote:
It would simply be quicker to back run; whip out a bomb; shield drop and then do a superslide, which was something that Guano never took advantage of in his run.
How much time would this save in the current TAS? Is there a video of using this to cross something regular like Hyrule field? Do you need the hover boots?
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You should definitely do 105%, besides aren't mokey's restored during boss battles or something? I have gotten 105% and all you have to do is enter that tuffstuff or whatever code...
By the way, please take some time before you begin the run and try to skip the beginning animation in the game. I have personally done it TWICE on the console and I believe it was by pressing "start" at just the right frame before that music box thing started spinning. This would save some nice time right off the bat.
Goodluck!
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Burning Death wrote:
JXQ wrote:
I've always thought that "DLTK" was somewhat arbitrary and unneeded. 20 head shots to kill an enemy? That seems like it would be boring to me.
Well... look at the DLTK settings carefully:
Enemy Health: 1000%
Enemy Damage: 1000%
Enemy Accuracy: 100%
Enemy Reaction Time: 100%
Summary: If the enemy see you, you're dead.
So far 16/20 levels are completed on console under this insane settings: http://thevectorman.net/comeasur/darkltk.html . I would like to see at least the remaining 3 levels (Streets, Train, Cradle) beaten on DLTK :).
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Kyrsimys wrote:
Weatherton wrote:
I'm surprised such a small improvement (a large part of which was using up+down) meant this run should have a star while the previous run should not. Did this run just show how good Phil's really was? Because, to the new user (who "recommended" runs appear to be for) they would probably be no more impressed with this run than Phil's...
Phil's run did have a star.
Well then, that makes sense -- not sure how I missed that >_>
<_<
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schneelocke wrote:
Nach wrote:
I pretty much agree with everything else you said otherwise (although I think that not only the old record holders have a "right" to try and beat the new movie; everyone does), but the idea that gameplay strategy could be considered "intellectual property" [1] is just "out there", if I may say so. :)
1. Itself a meaningless term - there exist copyright, trademarks, patents, and similar things, but to lump them all together as "intellectual property" not only blurs the lines between several very distinct concepts but also fails to recognise that *none* of these even *are* property in the same sense that physical objects can be. Patents and copyrights are time-limited monopolies granted by the state as part of a deal (i.e., in order to encourage the creation of creative works and technologies; and copyrights also only apply to specific creative expressions, not ideas), and trademarks, while not inherently time-limited, have to be actively used and defended in order to remain trademarks.
Given that, I'm not sure what kind of "intellectual property" a strategy for a game should be at all - none of the above can be applied to game strategies in any meaningful way. Of course, acknowledging the giants on whose shoulders you're standing should go without saying really, but the idea that there is a strict legal requirement to do so... that's quite bizarre. :)
I enjoyed your comments on intellectual property (though I know you don't want to call it that, I think it is a fitting generalized term because it is generally accepted by those who know the nuances of the limited monopolies the term implies). In any case, I see strategies as a trade secret until they are revealed. The only way a strategy can be owned is by keeping it a secret, otherwise it is like a patent with no vesting period -- immediately known and with unlimited usage.
btw, I'm surprised such a small improvement (a large part of which was using up+down) meant this run should have a star while the previous run should not. Did this run just show how good Phil's really was? Because, to the new user (who "recommended" runs appear to be for) they would probably be no more impressed with this run than Phil's...
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I was under the impression that there was a way to glitch 0'00"000 on the death race, I have never looked into it but I scrounged up the website I had found it on:
http://www.mrfixitonline.com/List.asp?ListId=491
Maybe 0'00"000 just indicates the player hasn't tried it, but some players have a blank there... Someone should post over there or do some research.
edit: 0'00"000 is actually listed on the MFO Best Time line as well...
But, anywho, there are ppl there with 2 seconds and such... kinda too bad but I think a TAS would just be a 0'00"000 unless you specified some arbitrary amount of time to wait at the starting line :( .
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Perhaps it is a faster method to get to that star that you normally just wall kick or use a cannon to get to (it's forwards from where you did the first seam jumping thing).... hopefully that made sense, it's late.
