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As far as manipulating CPU players goes, it has seemed to be quite random for me so far in my test runs. Small changes late in the game seem to make somewhat large, fairly irrational differences. I should note that I tried several different timings on LR when I was first attempting the Wario jump and none of them significantly changes the timing for Wario to show up. Perhaps there are key checkpoints.
Now, regarding LR, lap 2 can be completed faster using a Blue Shell (from the balloon, 180, self hit to tunnel). The third lap could be done in the same way if Wario is too far behind. The thing is, the current product is so much more entertaining than that potential result.
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Comicalflop wrote:
If a sub optimal run was what this game "needed", then Weatherton's run would have been published.
It seems that everyone has completely forgotten that test runs exist for every single cup, except for Star cup. If you have MK64 cravings, and desire to see theoretical routes and lack of inhuman precision, check those out, it's why Weatherton made them in the first place...
Actually, a test run exists for Star cup now too... Well, except for the last course. The real barriers remaining are, of course, resetting Mupen and the possibilities of Koopa Troopa Beach.
mmbossman wrote:
Yeah, some people will be sad/angry/suicidal (kidding) about it, but this is the internet.
mmbossman, I appreciate the rest of your post, but please do not make a joke of suicide. If you read on near the beginning of this thread, you will see that a dear friend of mine (who was my orginal TASing partner, prior to Mupen's existance) killed himself. Suicide is seriously not a joke and it should never be treated as such.
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bkDJ wrote:
I don't know why zOMG is so against a blj-less any% run (THAT being the condition, 70 stars being the result)... I've said it before, but I think it would be a great addition to the site.
I like the idea of a BLJless run, in addition to the fastest completion (which is now 0 star) and 100% completion (120 stars, plus bowser star, perhaps plus TASvideos star). BLJ's change the star strats in many cases. Anyone who can't see that isn't watching. One thing to consider first though:
Is it possible to get through star doors using the recently discovered wall-kicking speed up tricks? The language for what is essentially "no star door skips" needs to be somewhat tight.
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bkDJ wrote:
Well, I encoded this remotely so I have no idea if it ended up the way I wanted or if it's in sync or what and I don't have the bandwidth to check, where I am... high quality video of SL's run, with HR texture pack: enjoy!
(not recommended for slow PCs)
Hold the phone! Since when can you load HR packs with Mupen? I used to be heavily involved with the early HR packs. I designed a new character for MK64 and such.... how do you do run a movie while using them?
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FILIM0NAS wrote:
lewisje wrote:
Course 5, Big Boo's Haunt (1) - Eye to Eye in the Secret Room, because that requires the Vanish Cap
Course 10, Snowman's Land (1) - Into the Igloo, because you can't avoid coins on the way
How about the wall-kicks to build up speed?
I was thinking this too (after seeing that wall kick video)... seems reasonable, especially in a TAS. This would be awesome, too :)
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ShadowOfMyles wrote:
Enter Tiny-Huge Island with tiny Mario and big Island. Go to the stone square that creates black balls. Do a ton of wall kicks inside the square and make sure Mario leaves the square facing the water. Then let's see how many frames it takes for Mario to hit the invisible wall on the other side of the water. Sound good?
Myles
Attempting to obtain the impossible to reach coin in that level?
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Comicalflop wrote:
If the desynchs can be overcome, it'd be nice, but unfortunately I don't think a new level of awesomeness can be achieved vs. what is already done on console, unlike F-Zero X for example.
I think you are wrong, Myles Bukrim can attest to some of the amazing things that can be accomplished in this game. It has not been very hotly competed in. It is extremely fast, and there are several shortcuts that Myles knows of (some of which he has shown me).
If someone were to tell me how to get this game to a TASable state, I would definitely take it on. I already mentioned this to you on AIM.
The first and third, together, make me think that this thing will work. It's somewhat frustrating if it's true, because it will take much of the adventure out of the any% run... Also, if this works, would the hover boot jump to the castle still be required?
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Well, not toget everyone's hopes up, but I plan to work on the proof of concept for the Star Cup on the weekend of Feb. 9th... We'll see how much I can get done. My wife will be visiting her family that weekend.
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Having played this game in multiplayer and beaten it in single player, I don't think there is any way that this TAS would be interesting. The fact is, this is essentially a deathmatch or CTF (can't recall which) for which a TAS would not be exciting, IMHO.
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Heck, sometimes even if you reach the credits and a screen that says "congratulations" in a legitmate way, people complain and reject your movie because they say you didn't beat it:
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5432
The rules are not always consistent though, many (published) TAS' don't choose to start on the first level or end on the last level or play all the levels...
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Absolutely excellent job. I specifically remember when the blj skip through the star doors was discovered years ago. From what was written, the trick was first discovered and published in some South American magazine... anywho, this puts the cherry on top of that first star door skip. Excellent job, excellent execution. now:
BRING ON THE FRAME WARS...
oh, and get to work on a 120 star run ;)
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Hey Rising Tempest, I loved the 00 agent run and look forward to what can be done with the two controller style. Until then, I made a few notes while I watched your current TAS a third time. Please let me know if my comments have merit or not:
Silo; could some seconds be saved by keeping your weapon as plastique and manipulating enemies (rather than shooting them) in between rooms so that you only have to access plastique through the pause menu once for two rooms?
Jungle; could you cut on the inside of the tree by the wall near the beginning of the run (on your left as you approach that wall) using a "door" warp? It looks like this may give a better line.
Control; could you switch to D5k in the elevator at the beginning to avoid the (small) delay from switching weapons when the pp7 runs out?
Control/Caverns, can you crouch under slow rising doors to make it through them earlier?
Unrelated to the current TAS: Do you think a New Game+ using the Turbo Mode cheat would be fun?
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bkDJ wrote:
mr_roberts_z wrote:
I think it's a different kind of edge; the kind of stairs probably make a difference on the physics of the edge itself.
So, the same thing can't be done on the JRB staircase, for sure?
mr_roberts_z wrote:
There's no BLJ in there except behind the trapdoor (after BLJing on it for about 25 seconds, you can get behind the invisible wall), which doesn't do very much.
and charging it for 1 or 2 secodns isn't enough to turn around and get out?
Nice thought, and it should be timed. But I really doubt it's faster than quitting the level.
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mr_roberts_z wrote:
Yep, I've just finished planning out all 70 stars and the routes that I'll take around the castle. BBH and VCUtM are still out, but more DDD and WDW are in.
Basically, no star that I get is over 50 seconds non-TASed, and the vast majority are under 30 seconds.
This is quite an arbitrary goal. Please tell me how this will differ from the 120 star run? Recall that even the CCCless run was not well-received (though I really enjoyed it). I don't think a 70 star run is worth doing, especially when the 120 star could use a new run.
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While I probably did find the 16 star more entertaining, 95% of what is found in that run can be found in the 120 star run (especially when someone gets around to improving it again :) ). Still, this is a groundbreaking run. I suppose that many of you complaining about this run don't remember when BLJing was discovered. In 2002 the first 31 star runs were completed. Then, that same year, MIPS was used to create a 16 star run. Immediately people began speculating about a possible 1 or 0 star run. Now 1 star has been achieved, this is a GREAT milestone and something anticipated by the SM64 community for 5 years. PLUS, this appears to be a TAS exclusive. What more could you ask for?!!
I voted YES.
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JSmith wrote:
EDIT:Part of the credit to my mother for this one. If you do a talon trot jump-slide off a ledge, there is a 1-frame interval in which you can jump in midair.
Go Mom! Hehe.
One thing I've been meaning to comment on this game is that I was never a big fan of the sound effects. I didn't really like the music much either, but the sound effects were very annoying. This fact is extremely amplified in this TAS and I think that is a real shame. It's almost like having a Zelda run with low-health beeping for the entire run! I wonder, is there a way to not capture sound effects when recording? Some way to manipulate the output to be quiet or something? I'll probably have to watch this one on mute otherwise...
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Mr. Kelly R. Flewin wrote:
I'm sorry.. but regretfully I wasn't entertained :( The fact I've seen someone do the offroading trick on MAME far too many times to count.. well it's a nice touch on the Genesis version... but it's too blah. [That and I've watched wayyyyyyy too many games of Out Run in the past 2 months.]
Honestly, a points run done as fast as possible, without the offroading trick would be a bit more entertaining. Not by much, but far more then this. :(
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
I can guarantee that a points run without the off-roading trick wouldn't be more interesting, my first run was similar to a points run and there is a lot more braking and forced maneuvering (less freedom to be creative and look for better paths). Besides, the points in this game are counted in a very strange way and I've found that the FASTER I go on a given path, the LOWER my points have been -- not exactly a good goal for this site. I'm sorry that your own experience has caused you to not be "entertained" by this movie, but I find that an odd reason to vote no. Oh, by the way, if you read the comments, I began this run about 3 years ago. Not mentioned there but I'll mention it here, I worked on RRRR strategy since finishing LLRL, the submitted run was 95% done on May 16th. I guess I should have rushed out the LLRL and given up on the RRRR run just to be sure you weren't burnt out.
<Steps on to Soap Box>
Based on your logic, I should have voted "No" to the speed Tetris run. I mean, I've seen too many movies using the block-turn glitch and I really think a more arbitrary score-based goal would be better (not my true sentiment, but something that I think shows a logical flaw). Since people seem to have become harsh critics of many, otherwise great, runs, I wonder about the merit of the question "Did you like watching this movie?" on its own. How about additional questions like "did this run seem optimal," or "were you impressed by this movie." I guess there is no perfect methodology, but I've just read too many posts at the workbench where members have harped on a movie because it didn't make them all warm inside. Well, not every movie can be a Mario game but that doesn't mean that the TAS wasn't done well or isn't worthy of being published (and, yes, I realize that the votes do not decide whether a game gets published but it certainly shows members' mindsets).
Oh, and, for the record, I don't think members should be allowed to post about their desire to see a movie published "as a concept demo." I remember seeing that opinion rattled off for about 10 movies in a row back when I submitted my Mario Kart 64 run.
</Steps down from Soap Box>
Note: sorry if I sound agitated but I really did invest a ridiculous amount of work into this run. Total re-records was likely 30,000+ (possibly way more) and the submitted run uses so few because I started over after determining the optimal path and did a lot of testing on separate movie files.
