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- indians doesn't seem to attack early in the game, no matter how many delays I used or other difficulties
- reinforcements (3rd options with a ship image) only starts from ~5th turns
I've tried a lot of delays, but your's is the best so far (disaster stops last enemy from going to the train). Also checked with indians, but even if it was faster to start the fights, the disaster went "wrong places", not stopping the left guy.
So I'm pretty sure that this is the best setting (only disaster) and delay (2 frame delay) as your movie.
Trying and will report here once I finished checking battle scenes (for random 1-2 frames)
edit1:
- bizhawk neshawk loads the game 1 frame faster (f829) before the delayed start (which is ~f899). syncs perfectly and doesn't changes outcome
- the extra 2 frame delay is also the best before the first fight (so the horsies comes from the top)
edit2 and 3:
- 5 frames can be saved in 1st battle by pausing and unpausing at the beginning. If done correctly, the last frame of last position update for the soldiers is f2305 instead of f2310
- this also can be used at 2nd battle but unfortunately it also affects enemy units (cannon for sure, not sure about soldiers)
movie with pause trick only for 1st battle User movie #43824651158289541
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Comments on the newly uploaded movie User movie #43772755409293983:
- first of all, good job fcxiaopengyou :)
- using "disaster" also changes enemies' route on the world map (as the disaster itself also moves)
- so luck manipulation is 2 frames delay for this route (f898 starting the game, 1 frame + 1 lag frame)
Given these informations, might be possible improvement:
- using "indians" also changes enemies' route(another unit for the world map), so other delays at start might saves frames (as well lose, because of animations). Also note the "indians" will mostly stay at one point. Check the FAQ for more information here
Probably will take a few stabs on the weekend. edit: to try improving it.
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Thank you Alyosha for figuring out things :)
For the record, I write down my BIOSes for 4.:
SMS Export SMS Bios (USA/Export) SMS BIOS 1.3 (USA, Europe) [BIOS] Sega Master System (USA) (v1.3) [ b ].sms 8192 sha1:C315672807D8DDB8D91443729405C766DD95CAE7
SMS Japan SMS Bios (Japan) SMS BIOS 2.1 (Japan) [BIOS] Sega Master System (Japan) (v2.1).sms 8192 sha1:A8C1B39A2E41137835EDA6A5DE6D46DD9FADBAF2
Note that I had [ b ] for USA/Export, this would explain the "3 step thingy"
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vCciHqVhbqQ/maxresdefault.jpg
Also note that there's a lot of other BIOSes. No linking.
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Thought I should add my new observations / questions here instead of github for discussion.
1. Some games (mostly ROMs marked with K as Korea from GoodSMS) either skips the BIOS or does something different...?
My Hero (UEB) [!].sms shows bios
Seishyun Scandal (J) [!].sms shows a SEGA MARK III logo
Ttoriui Moheom (K).sms shows some text
I've thought it has something with "if region Export then load bios" and "if region Japan skip BIOS". However,
Nemesis (K).sms never loads the BIOS.
My primary question would be... shouldn't the setting of "Enable BIOS" override Region setting? Or it also depends on being eiher multivison/sg-1000/sc-7000...?
2. For whatever reason when trying to corrupting the memory, seeking in TAStudio is near impossible because it also gets corrupted and I need to resync from more then 1000 frames.
Examples: Ys Omen TAS, Kuni-chan no Game Tengoku Part 2.
Link to Kuni-chan example movie: User movie #43397617494297324
What you should observe, is that inserting/removing a frame before the L+R (which crashes the game if you have more than 0 speed) corrupts the memory even after seeking back hundreds of frame.
3. Some Games (same as 1, Korean ROMs) start the BIOS, and show a 3 step thingy. Maybe I have a bad BIOS?
Power Boggle Boggle (K).sms
Loletta no Syouzou (J) [!].sms (note: it's japan)
edit: 4. Settings bug?!
A. Settings: use BIOS, Auto region, Auto display.
B. Checked this ROM that skipped BIOS:
Line of Fire (EBK) [!].sms
C. I was confused because it's recognized as (E) so it should be Export. I check the settings, BIOS, Auto region, Auto display. Changing it to Export and restarting core (CTRL+R)
D. It shows the BIOS fine. I go back to Auto region. CTRL+R. It shows the BIOS?
I have no idea how this happened.
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Oh. I've commented on the movie.
Regarding the video: so if one would want to recreate it without any tool... it will be very hard. But let's say someone is motivated enough.
1P no TAS help:
1. You need to get the jet and either fall through the ground (didn't found the video of it) or die (as TMR does)
2A. You can experiment as Koh1fds did with using the pause. Pausing only possible on non lag frames, so even if you are the king of button mashing, it's literally impossible to pause on the very first non lag frame, unpause, do 1 frame of input, pause... So you are more efficient with at least pressing pauses more often. The idea is letting the game roll out his own values (pointer and objects) and replaying the pause unpause thing.
Also a side note, that holding a button won't be processed for the next frame. So "T,A,A,TA,A,A,T" will result in the memory corruption part as a simple A for that frame when pause went off. It's more impactful if you press a different button each time you unpause.
2B. Depending on how you ended up, most of the time you are out of luck because you can't abuse that much while riding the jet. However as the time goes, you can get in to different game logics, helping you to "recover" without resetting.
2C. Because how the game works, the ammount of time paused and buttons pressed BEFORE suiciding also manipulates things.
I wonder what would happen, if you press only 1 button combination right at the 1st non lag frame and holding it, so at least you can manipulat 1 object that could lead to a convenient GEG.
Combinations that easy to pull off and has something to help:
BUR - B, Up, Right, not that useful, but helps you in "dying", giving you a chance to avoid/delay getting in to the "jet" game flow (riding a jet)
BUL - same but with left
Unfortunately, the best combinations require you to press UD or LR.
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Well yes, the difficulty really doesn't comes off for the viewer through the video.
It's advisable to take a shot for a few seconds to laugh your ass on being so bad (when going with max speed). :)
edit: thanks for the encode Spikestuff!
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Just saying that your TAS uses easy difficulty. The hardest difficulty can be unlocked via cheat code (which should be accepted) or finishing the game IIRC.
Latest WR https://www.speedrun.com/run/z0eeeo9m
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Tristal wrote:
I noticed the mouse cursor in the encode, it's a bit distracting. Interesting game, though.
Obviously that's my mouse which was offscreen but overlapped with my TAS Editor region for OBS. Sorry bout that, but I had to make a temporary encode since depending on the name no one would watched it in the first place (cause usually I submit those shitty vault runs)
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I belive the C64 would be much slower (80 to 10 speed!, much slower 80 speed, differently divided parts of static traps). The only place it should excel is the angry cave woman / dragon part for being manipulatable.
Atari 8 bit has different transition between levels but still slower max speed.
ZX spectrum has faster movement at crocodiles but still slower max speed.
The MSX one is very similar to this one, I wouldn't surprised if it's actually the same.
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Colecovision BizHawk 2.2.1: pressing the power or reset button gives the following error:
System.IndexOutOfRangeException: Index was outside the bounds of the array.
at BizHawk.Emulation.Cores.Components.Z80A.Z80A.ExecuteOne()
at BizHawk.Emulation.Cores.ColecoVision.TMS9918A.ExecuteFrame(Boolean Int_pending)
at BizHawk.Emulation.Cores.ColecoVision.ColecoVision.FrameAdvance(IController controller, Boolean render, Boolean renderSound)
at BizHawk.Client.EmuHawk.MainForm.StepRunLoop_Core(Boolean force)
at BizHawk.Client.EmuHawk.MainForm.ProgramRunLoop()
at BizHawk.Client.EmuHawk.Program.SubMain(String[] args)
I guess it has something to do with the new input log is different than previously and it's not updated at emulation.... ??
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3. Neo Geo Pocket Big Bang Pro Wrestling
(faq: https://www.gamefaqs.com/ngpc/916582-big-bang-pro-wrestling/faqs/11279)
This game allows the player to play 4 different modes. The theoriticaly fastest one would be the "coffin" mode, which let's you win by throwing the enemy out of the ring inside the coffin.
Example video showing the coffin: https://youtu.be/6ksWQ0E4bQQ?t=129
The theoritically most entertaining one would be the "Reward" which requires you to leave the ring and climb up on a pole. The fighter who climbs up the pole and catches the prize wins. (couldn't find video about it).
Since my TAS will target vault, am I allowed to choose the fastest mode (coffin) instead of the normal (normal) mode which is just generic fighting with wrestling rules? I'm also looking for an answer about other fighting games (like Wrestling Madness for NGP, SNK vs. Capcom: Match of the Millennium too) aswell.
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I also wanted to change the final sentence, because currently it means:
- the movie improved by discovering the void jump trick
what actually happened:
- the movie improved by discovering the usage of void jump in this TAS
edit: because the trick was already known but I failed to realise that it works on horizontally scrolling level instead of vertically (as I mentioned I clicked on the video of the trick on the game resources believing it happens because clinger winger or what scrolls vertically first)
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Thanks, I think I was looking for this link: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/zeromus/bizhawk-udexo/history
I couldn't see similar stuff on your commit link. (will edit this post once I tested the commit)
edit1: video for above post:
Link to video
edit2: checked interim build, used default config, it works. With my config, when the "frame won't recolor" stuff happens, recording mode is checked and I focused bizhawk but it doesn't records my mouse position. Write "make a video" and I do it.
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Can I somehow download an interim build containing this commit to test it?
Number hotkeys VS inputting lightgun position (answering to feos' ideas):
- use numpad - yes I use this workaround and it's consists of leaving mouse with right hand, which seems to be OK
- use arrows to change the value - god, I was looking for how to manipulate value without inputting and I tried the minus sign which either set it to 0 or 1..? apart from this,
- drag your mouse after entering analog editing mode up or down to change the value - THE ULTIMATE WORKAROUND I fcking love it, I can easily change it to my value fast and precise and simply leave it and easy to copy paste by dragging the new value and if I failed I can fine tune with the above mentioned 2 tricks. Thanks!!!
"I dunno why you need to scroll around while recording your input normally"
- The only reason I need to focus BizHawk is that I can record my mouse movement that doesn't works if I'm using TAStudio
- Half of my workflow (as I'm optimizing very early while creating input) is about going back to a frame, double click my "follow cursor" hotkey to see current frame and scroll with mouse (while the movie still playsback) so I can see:
Frame N - 20
frame N
frame N + 20
(do I need to delay my input to get fewer lag frames, when does the game accepts the first input, how to concatenate input asap)
- Many times I need to seek forward hundreds/thousands of frames when manipulating RNG or lag frames that depends on non trivial things (for example cycle count, subroutine order in 1 frame)
Simple example: WSWAN Guilty Gear Petit 2 (I've submitted GGP1 if you haven't heard about this game):
- The game lags. I need to correct my input at 3 key points (after the end of a fight, before starting the next fight and manipulating enemy changed due to both my own delay and the game's delay). It's inevitable to "watch" (hold turbo while scrolling like a maniac in TAStudio) how my movie changed, how many frames I will need to append and did I was successful in removing an unneccessary delay and restart this process for each different delays at these keypoints
Rewritten my "frames won't color" stuff:
1. I check a part of my movie from frame 800, 1.0 speed
2. I see I need to delay input so I pause the game
3. I insert 2 or more frames. When you insert more than 1 frame at frame N, TAStudio will remove the new color from frame N-1 (from green to light green) and fails to recolor the next frames.
How to fix this by the TASer:
With the mouse seek to frame N + 2 or earlier. Seeking to frame N + 3 or more won't fix this
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My config:
0-1-2-3-4-5 etc to control TAStudio (seek to current frame, delete, insert, copy, paste etc) and use the mouse when need to select multiple rows and mouse wheel to scroll the scrollbar.
My problem for example NES Zapper with lightgun:
1. If I press "Recording mode" and go back to whatever frame, it will be unchecked if I didn't pause unpause before going to a frame.
2. I can't record my mouse position if TAStudio is focused, otherwise I can't use the mousewheel to scroll if BizHawk is focused
3. The obvious conflict between inputting numbers and using my hotkeys.
edit: general TASing problem I ran into:
1. I check a part of my movie from frame 800, 1.0 speed
2. I see I need to delay input so I pause the game
3. I insert 2 frames at frame 800 with a numbered hotkey (probably unrelated)
4. TAStudio won't recolor from frame 800
I would really like to use my current config (biggest advantage for me is that 0 is at the very left side of my laptop keyboard while other buttons (tab shift caps etc) are control keys).
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Informations from IRC elaborated:
Original game ending path (mostly done by memory)
1. final level, boss dies
2. in-game cutscene
3. dialog cutscene from boss (can be manipulated but won't progress from there, the cutscene will be replayed each time you watched/skipped it) for 1P / dialog cutscene from eagle guy (every game end glitch uses this once getting through game over) for 2P
4. flying ship cutscene 1
5. final screen
Final level consists of step 1, 2 and ends with loading step 3
Ending sequence consists of step 3, 4, 5
All the special scenes (I'v elaborated this enough times) can be manipulated. Short list: intro, warp 1 level, warp 2 level, reset level, game over screen, 2 unexisting levels, ~4 corruptd game over screen, boss dialog cutscene.
Remove 1 B from P2's pad last input to get "old" ending (from step 3) instead of this movie version I've already did in my very 1st usermovie (which starts from step 5)
It's very easy to identify the game ended. The game takes no input starting from step 3. Otherwise, you would have non-lag frames to input. So if you try to be a barbarian and mash some other buttons in the movie, the game over screen will either fail or countdown finally and then the next cutscene (with hawk guy) will have non-lag frames and won't magically starts step 3 (because it didn't loaded step 3's cutscene but the game's primary "you suck" cutscene which looks visually same apart from text).
I think I've covered every area.
edit: originally the music would change at step 3/step 4 but since we went to the final ending screen, there was no new music to load. If this would be just a simple image showing, you could instantly press start to get to the title screen.
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Challenger: I might tackle 2p warps, but it's definitely not on my "next projects" list. The 1p warpless is very long / 2p warpless is already updated and no real incentive in working on it.
2p warps probably needs discussion with feos about "movie goals" as we used previously the fastest warp 1 level, but I think that after the reactions from HRDQ showing the TAS, we could definitely spice up it to include some entertainment/speed tradeoffs.
Captain Forehead: by pausing and unpausing the game alternating between the two player's pads without losing time. The previous-previous submission notes includes it. This was abused in most of my game end glitch runs but this one only at level 1. On level 3 it flickers the background too which could be seen as a negative thing (and probably went unnoticed as lack of feedback).
Alyosha: wanted to emphasize the trick and the ending result really differentiates enough from previous versions of this TAS
FCEUX 2.2.3 version (the original version. this submission has different inputs for resyncing random factors and payload on P2 pad):
User movie #42077213552229072
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While a simple UUU (UR, U, UR, R, R, R....) not enough, I did found a new magic trick.
The first one was discovered by someone of the earlier TASes doing the "R, LR, R, R, R" trick which depends on previous actions (I believe this works when rapidly running in one direction and changing direction mid-air with same speed, like in this TAS post asteroids scene, 1 rat on both sides).
It's possible to further abuse this with...... UDLR, R, R, R, this instantly gives me 3px/f instead of the very slow running and 2px/f 2px/f whatever increments. Need to check if this helps me to get the next rat before their spawn timer (16~20~24 something like that is the frame rule)
edit1:
- 2860 rat spawn, but I only save 2 frames to get there ~2853, not enough to surpass the barrier
- UDLR also works in 1st level, but I think we still need to wait the camera to scroll so we can get inside the warp point
edit2: uploaded my 8 frames (50 frames compared to published TAS) faster movie User movie #41959449580433288
edit3: any wishes regarding entertainment? (music sync, movement, before payload scene)
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Thanks for pointing out my low skilled mistake feos :)
Uploaded movie of my first try that finishes the game 42 frames faster User movie #41937148763909575
edit: up to level 3 seems to be OK (unimprovable).
List of tricks I'm trying/tried:
1. Doing the "camera border dashing" at 1st rat (what the TAS does at 2nd rat).
a: It looks like the "flying dash" only works when the rat isn't on the screen, which is obviously impossible to do for the 1st rat. When it's not possible, the toad will use the "big kick"
b: To get over the camera border, the camera needs to be rolling while doing the A part
(edit 2 c: you can't do it reverse, because Rash will change to the "flying dash" state AFTER doing the simple "dash" state)
Overall: need to recheck and optimize fastest strategy of moving our front toad (actual toad who is closer to the right side to roll the camera asap). Need to check how many times we can get Rash (green) over Zitz (orange whatever)
Saved 1 frame somewhere with faster moving around post 2nd rat
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