Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
RyanM561 wrote:
If there really is interest in a swordless run, can we do a "only stabs when necessary" run? The only time the sword would be used would be the final boss, which would provide the closure that's lacking from the "ends when reaching the boss" swordless run now. It would be like the Contra movie where no shots are fired, except at bosses.
Just a thought...
Hard to tell... on the one hand, it is kinda strange that a 'swordless' run picks up the sword and eventually uses it. It can hardly be called a swordless run anymore. The newer LoZ runs also use bombs more and more, and in the first quest run, the white sword isn't even collected at all. This will also make a 'swordless' run less different than it would be otherwise.
It is however a very old challange, that nearly everyone knows. If a really different route is used, and if it can differ on some other aspects, it might be good enough.
I myself love LoZ runs, and would certainly watch it, and also vote yes on it... but after I did the outlands run, I noticed that LoZ wasn't as popular as I thought... so I actually doubt there is a general demand for a swordless run.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
xipo wrote:
I think using"down+B" can kill normal enemies more faster than using"A+B"
This is true for Raph and Mike... but not for Leo and Don. For Leo and Don A+B is faster than down+B
xipo wrote:
The importence is we should only kill the last enemy faster.
True, but if there are more than 3 enemies, the first few enemies must be killed as fast as possible too, so that the last enemy appears as soon as possible.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Indeed very nice to see a 2 player movie of this. There were a few spots where I wasn't really sure why you did what you did. At the start, you killed some enemies by hitting them twice with the normal attack. I also wasn't sure about the things you did, and didn't kill at the surfboard level. Nevertheless, the run was well done. I know it's very hard/frustrating to TAS a tmnt game with 2 players... I also started a 2 player tmnt2 movie a long time ago, but only finished the first 3 levels. It must also be hard to pick the right spots where to die, and how much to play with only 1 turtle. Combined with the turtles different strengths, it makes the run quite open for different strategies, which is good.
Did you know that normal enemies are killed about 10 frames faster when killing them with the special attack of Leo or Don? The enemies don't leap as much in the air with these turtles, as they do with Raph or Mike. This might also be something important to consider.
Anyway, I really enjoyed watching this, although I do think there is a little room for improvement. Over 3 minutes shorter than the 1 player run is good, and a lot more interesting (also harder to make). I vote yes, and think this should obsolete the 1 player run.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Cpadolf wrote:
given the choice again a ingame run would still have been what I'd pick, I simply do it as I find most entertaining.
Are you planning on making another version? And if so... are you sure you would pick ingame time again?
I think even a lot of the yes voters would like real time better...
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Bisqwit wrote:
The question cannot be "should this movie be published".
The person who votes in the poll is not a judge. They are usually able to say how they liked the movie, but they are not able to determine what is good for the site and what is not.
I knew you were going to say this.
Fabian wrote:
This makes no sense. Just because a person is not actually a judge doesn't mean he can't have an opinion, which is probably a good one anyway. Your statement would be very valid if the real judges just went with whatever the poll results indicated, but that's obviously not the case.
Very true. It is intended that people write down why they voted something anyway, and the real judges will be able to make their own decisions with the given information.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
I vote for it to be changed. I think "Do you think this movie should be published?", or something like that would be more suitable. The question is meant to help judges decide the submission's fate, and this question can help just as well. You can take more things into account if the question is changed, such as goals and accuracy... both of these things aren't accounted for in the current question.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Cpadolf wrote:
but the question that which should be awnserd with a yes no or a meh is not "Do you wan't this published" it is "Did you find this movie entertaining".
It's of course true that's the question... but I think most people actually answer "Should this be published?" instead of "Did you like watching this movie?".
I think if there was a poll which asked what question should be there, most people would want to be answering the "Should this be published?" question... and I think there is a good reason for that too.
If there was a Super Metroid run made with the goal of going through as few as possible room transitions. It might also create an entertaining movie, with a slightly different route... and to the question "Do you find this entertaining?", everyone might answer yes, even though no one thinks it should be published, since the goal was too arbitrary, and it looks nearly the same as the any% run.
That's of course an extreme example... but you get the idea. I personally think the question should be changed, and not the way people interpret it.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Very nice run, especially as a first time submission. I am however a very strong supporter of real time, and not ingame time, so I'll refrain from voting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
I don't quite understand what you are talking about... with the glitch, it should be possible to enter the gambling cave way more than 25 frames faster than in the current TAS.
Either way, you can manipulate where the 50 coins end up by entering the cave later. Since, if you enter a cave (or level) there is a 4 frame time window, the rupees will only be different every 4 frames.
If you are unlucky, you will lose all your frames there... I remember we had to wait there for like ~20 frames also (these frames were hidden in various locations to make them less appearant)... so actually, IF you can enter it 25 frames faster, you are actually more like about equally fast...
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
You say you are annoyed if someone improves a movie, says how much time he improved it, tells how many frames he saved at what places, and what he did to save these frames... IF someone does all of this, I'm actually really happy. Most submission texts nowadays barely mention IF it is even an improvement to another movie, or what the exact goals are.
Like you said, a trick that was already present in the previous version can easily be found in the previous submission text (links to previous submissions are even on the same page as the submission text). If not, it's also easy to check what input is used to do it. Finding out yourself will probably enable you to understand it better than anyone could tell you. Then there is also the option of asking something you don't understand.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
I didn't like the camera position at all in this version. Only place where I thought it was good was at the second bowser battle. For the rest of the TAS, mario was way too close to the camera, which gave a claustrophobic feeling, and didn't show very well what was going on. Still voting yes on it, since I think it should be published, but hope that the camera position will be different for the next version (and yes, there will be another version).
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Ramzi wrote:
How were the exploits performed in Arkanoid
It's basically explained in the link Morrison provided, but I'll explain it in a few lines here:
If you wait long, the game will play a demo. If you don't touch anything, the demo will always be exactly the same. The ball shoots automatically from the panel after a short while, and the comp is programmed to always stay underneath the ball (no matter how fast the ball travels... when playing the game normally, you are able to more at a relatively slow speed, but the comp can move from the far left of the screen to the far right of the screen in 1 frame if needed). You are however able to control the A button in the demo. This allows you to shoot the ball from the panel before it would automatically fire. If there are enemies, the timing of the fired ball has influence on the game, and the demo will be different. By firing at the right frame, it's possible to get the laser powerup. You can now fire shots with the A button inside the demo! This gives you even more control over it. It seems however still impossible to for instance die in the demo, since the comp always stays underneath the ball. When getting or losing the laser powerup, the panel will shrink for a moment though, and with the right manipulation of the demo by using the laser, it was possible to go game over, since the panel just shrunk when the ball was about to hit it. The Arkanoid continue code, which allows you to continue in the level where you last died still worked, so this way, it was possible to restart in a level relatively late in the game... but you should probably just watch the movie :)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
DaShiznawz wrote:
It seems like everyone here always knows what to do. Like if I chose a game I wasn't already used to speed running where I knew a good amount of stuff (like I did with Oot) I wouldn't know what to do. I think someone on here said something like "you don't need to be good or familiar with a game to TAS it." How can that be.
Yeah, I think it's very true that you don't need to be good or familiar with a game to TAS it. When picking a game, it is more important that you like the game (since you will be spending lots of time with it) and that it's suitable for TASing (a game is generally suitable for TASing if you can make the TAS look really different than a normal speedrun of that game). When TASing a game, you look way more analytically at a game then you would normally do. You check what exactly is needed to reach the goal of your TAS, what exactly is needed for that goal, and what is not needed. You check what input causes what effect, and try to understand how the game works. You think of all things that could possibly be the fastest to do something, and try them all out. If you have decided which strategy is fastest, try to optimize and perfect it. When you are done with something, check out how it looks in realtime (this is what people will eventually see, and can possibly motivate you). It is also good to upload your progress, since others at the forum might have some good ideas, or see a mistake somewhere.
adelikat wrote:
I couldn't disagree more with the suggestions to do another game.
Redo oot. The best way to learn how to TAS is to redo the same game several times and attempt to keep improving it.
Well, he should indeed redo it, but maybe doing another game in between might not be a bad idea. I can imagine N64 input can be annoying (way more buttons, and doesn't always respond), you have to watch desyncs, and a ~2 hour TAS is quite long... Maybe doing a ~10 minute NES or SNES TAS to get better known with general TASing strategies and tools, such as frame advance, might be a good idea before redoing OoT
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
stanski wrote:
The other issue you guys need to consider is that there is a submission to SDA that is going to be around the time of guano's movie. Do you really want a movie closer in time to a run on SDA when a much much faster run is available?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
I've just finished a certain level, but I have two versions...
One version cleares away the last block 64 frames faster than the other version, but because the score keeps counting longer in this version, the screen turns black 9 frames later than the other version so the next level starts 9 frames later.
Which version is preferred?
1) The version which clears all blocks 64 frames faster, but ends up 9 frames slower because the screen turns black 9 frames later.
2) The version which clears all blocks 64 frames slower, but ends 9 frames faster because the screen turns black 9 frames sooner.
Edit: Solved, I'm taking a third version.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
Bisqwit wrote:
However, due to the anticipated rank system overhaul...
Was there any news on it lately? It seems that the last time the thread was active was 4 months ago (not counting that last post). Are you still waiting for ideas?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
AKA wrote:
You could also strongly argue that Arkanoid shouldn't be there as well as Mega Man 5, especially when the movie looks weak compared the other starred Mega Man run.
moozooh wrote:
Both are being redone by Baxter, though.
I don't think it was really a coincidence that AKA mentioned both movies I'm working on... it seems like a response to my post. It almost sounds like an attack towards me. I don't know what I said that pissed you off, but you are clearly talking to me and not making a general statement, saying that both of the movies I'm working on shouldn't have a star, and even calling the Mega Man 5 movie weak. I'm not quite sure what you are trying to get at.
Arkanoid has had a star since forever (which is obviously not a reason FOR having a star), and I'll probably submit a movie which attempts to improve it shortly. If that star is to be re-evaluated, I would suggest doing that after I submit the new version.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1403)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
moozooh wrote:
Perhaps because it isn't a massive improvement entertainment-wise (which is what RCR movies should compete in, actually)?
That too, and I personally wasn't in favour of a star for the previous version either (Or, we are both mistaken, and it accidently didn't get a star when the newer version was published ;) ). To quote myself from half a year ago:
Baxter wrote:
The new Ninja Gaiden 2 run seems very suitable for a star.
If it were up to me, it gets the River City Ransom star.
I'm still in favour of giving Ninja Gaiden 2 a star.
