Maybe, when they talked about "the other", they were talking about Spezzafer's wip. This wip completes levels up to 4-2 getting 100%, and he is quite a bit faster than your wips in every level.
creaothceann wrote:
Wouldn't it be possible to use SNES9x 1.51? It seems to have less graphical errors, especially in the 4th level.
I already responded to this, but the movies by Bretaigne94 (where SNES9x 1.51 is used), like this one, prove my point even more (skip to 1:40, the boss battle). There is so much lag in this boss battle... while there is none of that lag on the actual SNES (1:50, same boss battle). I don't know if this is the case for other games also, but if so, I think we might need to reconsider this.
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CtrlAltDestroy wrote:
I think commentary/subtitles skewed to the entertaining side are better than those on the informative side, simply because it should be common practice here on TASvideos to put everything the viewer would want to know about the run, including stage-by-stage commentary, into the submission text. Doing a strictly technical commentary would just be taking these submission notes and reading them out loud.
And for those watching on other sites, they are always encouraged to "see tasvideos.org for more information" and look at the submission notes.
While this might be true, look at the populairity of for instance gametrailers.com. Everything they say in their movies could just have been put in a written review, but it's so much nicer to actually see what the person is talking about. I (would) enjoy an informative commentary so much more, even if the same information can be found in the submission text.
Since I like informative ones much better than the ones trying to be funny, it's indeed probably the best if the author is willing to do it. I also think frame advance (and maybe rerecords) should be used in the commentary, to explain exactly what is done in some cases, and to have enough time to explain some very action packed sequences.
The best audio commentary I've heard sofar was this one.
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Alden wrote:
No site regular will have their mind blown. People less familiar with the idea of a TAS might...
If the site's aim was to provide a complete library of TASes, this could be published... there might indeed be people interested to see a Duck Hunt TAS. The same can however be said for many TASes that were rejected for bad game choice... some people might just be searching for a movie of it.
Nach wrote:
On a technical level, your movie would be hard to beat, if not impossible
I consider this to be a sign of a very bad game choice for TASing, if less than 200 rerecords can make a perfect movie. I have to agree with Heisanevilgenius and Dromiceius here, voting no.
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I think I agree with Chef Stef agreeing with Mukki's post. There are some movies that would never be published nowadays because of the game choice or goals. A full movie of these, or an optimized improvement wouldn't really help much, and is in some cases unlikely to happen. There are only a few of these cases, but I think Mukki's solution of deleting the publication and setting the submission to rejected in those few cases might be a good idea.
For movies that can be improved, but where there is no fundamental flaw in the game choice, I'd say leave them as they are. If the can be improved, they will be one day. I also think there is nothing wrong with a movie getting outdated by new tricks that are found... that doesn't make the quality of the current movie worse, some things just aren't included. If the technical quality is really bad, than it was lucky to slip by the judging process once, but this is hard to check either way, and it will be obsoleted eventually. There is no need to label movies with known improvements... basically every published movie can be improved anyway.
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When the last enemy is killed. In some levels, we wait with killing the last enemy so that we can collect more water bubbles. Collecting 20 water bubbles triggers the item that warps us a few levels.
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CtrlAltDestroy wrote:
If there is a separate warped category for Bubble Bobble it would only include 10 more levels (and no EXTEND) out of 112. That wouldn't fly on this site for entertainment I think. This game is already boring enough for most people, 10 levels is an acceptable (and welcome) loss.
Yeah, I (and I think the vast majority) fully agree. The amount that is skipped is relatively low, and skipping the levels is a science in itself, collecting water bubbles in the right levels, and planning ahead (same for EXTEND).
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@CtrlAltDestroy: I now know the source of your confusion. Adelikat submitted the wrong file. This is also what has been encoded.
http://www.wikiupload.com/download_page.php?id=213559 (put .fm2 at the end of the filename after downloading)
This is the boss battle that I produced last night, which is 33 frames faster than what has been submitted, and 1 frame slower than your movie. I think you might be able to improve your version by using the the strategy at the start of the movie that I uploaded here now. Good luck! (adelikat will wait with updating the submission file, since maybe you can improve your version with this.)
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It makes the jump towards the powerups 3 frames sooner, so the beginning is 3 frames faster.
It's because bubbles are used to get to the top (see submission file)... I don't think these bubbles limit the amount of electro bubbles that can be fired, as these regular bubbles seem to disappear when a lot of electro bubbles are fired.
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@CtrlAltDestroy:
I improved the bossfight yesterday... so that screenshot is in fact not from the submitted movie. Problem is, I improved the old version by 33 frames, so yours is a frame faster :S
(I do think your version can also be improved... as my version reached the powerups at the top faster).
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Yeah, that's a very nice strat for the napalm man level. Especially with the scroll glitch at the end quite a lot of frames will be saved in that level I'm sure :)
Anyway, I know that second room at gravityman's level can be a pain :(
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Everyone seems to agree that there is no need for an ending sequence, which is great as this is exactly what we were thinking. So the first question is resolved, and the fourth option of the last question can also be ignored. Particularly on the second question however, both NxCy and I would have picked the other option than what seems to be the popular opinion:
Baxter wrote:
Concerning the order of the extra levels:
1)) Complete the extra levels in the order 1-E, 2-E...6-E (not as confusing as a random order)
2)) Complete the extra levels in a random order (might be faster than a regular order, after leaving 6-8 you end up on the world 6 level select screen)
Basically all 7 people that replied were in favor of 2)), whereas NxCy and I are in favor of 1)).
We basically like option 1)) because it's more structured. The game has quite a nice variety of levels that gradually become more difficult. The extra levels would fit quite well after the regular levels in this aspect. It might also confuse people who are watching, and it would make it hard to seek for a particular (extra) level. It has a sense of perfectness about it that Yoshi will take on whatever level comes next.
On the more practical side, it takes over 100 frames to select a level in a different world, and doing an extra level before 6-8 would mean one extra of these transitions. It would therefore not even be likely that doing an extra level earlier would save time. We also know that we'll leave 6-8 without eggs, so we'd have to make a world transition there anyway, which might very well be 1-E... so no extra transitions there. Due to the many possible orders of completing the worlds, it is unlikely that the right order turns out to be the fastest... but it won't cost a lot of gametime (we are talking about frames). It would cost a lot of time in planning though (you would need to know exactly how much time picking up each enemy costs to plan an egg route, which is particularly impossible for 1-E where the bats appear randomly).
Would it be ok if we played them in the right order (1-E, 2-E...6-E, all after 6-8), or do you think it would really be better if we did them at any point.
Baxter wrote:
What to do after completing the last extra level:
1))) Stop input at the final goal ring (score talies to 100% (as in all levels) and happy music)
2))) After the level, press the score button at the level select screen (flips over all levels to show that 100% of the levels is completed)
3))) Reset the game and end after skipping the intro (this leaves the game as the yoshi island animation, which will be at dark, as 6-8 was completed, it also shows 6 stars at the game file for the 6 extra levels that have been completed at 100%)
1))) 1 vote
2))) 3 votes
3))) 2 votes
NxCy like option 1))) best. I myself don't know which one I like best yet... they all have their advantages and disadvantages:
1))) Like all TASes, input stops after last bit of gameplay and the score tallying to 100% is nice... but it's the same screen as every other level would have, and ending an avi with this would seem quite abrupt
2))) Slightly less abrupt, but a bit more random, especially considering that it also just shows that 1 world has been completed with 100%.
3))) The only version which has a sign of exactly what has been completed. There needs to be a reset however... and we currently have no idea where this will be. Either way, the reset will look very abrupt probably (maybe it's possible to reset right after the goalring) and people might be confused by it going through the game startup sequence. For many people it also might not be clear that 6 stars refer to the worlds that are completed at 100%...
We'd love some more opinions about this, although it's less pressing than the question above it. Which would be abrupt? Which would confuse viewers? Is either of this a problem?
mklip2001 wrote:
Definitely skip the credits after 6-8. As for the extra levels, use whatever order you want, though I suspect that it's going to be fastest to do 1-E after 1-8, 2-E after 2-8, etc. This way, you do the world-changing animation the fewest number of times, and also the movie feels nice and sequential.
Yeah, this would also be nice and sequential, but will be relatively slow. You indeed end up at the same level when unlocking it when the next world hasn't been unlocked... but when we unlock it, we'll unlock the next world at the same time, so we'll start off at the next world, which means that if this is done, it would cost an extra world transition each time.
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mmbossman wrote:
Do we give subtitles to the admin staff (i.e. Editor/Player, Site manager/Expert Player)?
Yeah, this is the plan... someone just needs to implement it.
It was originally planned that the higher the rank, the rarer is would become. As time progresses, there are more and more published TASes at the site, and I think that due to this, the number of people in every rank will grow (also the expert player), keeping the ratios about the same. I agree that one person on a rank is a bit strange, but that will already change if the site contribution and TAS contributions are both combined in the rank.
Mukki wrote:
Perhaps having Expert be 1500 and having Ninja as 2500 or 3000.
This would make mmbossman's problem of having a possibly underused rank only bigger.
Randil wrote:
Is there a page where you can see how many of these points you (or someone else) has? I've looked around for a way to find out how many points I have, but without any luck. (I'd like to avoid calculating it myself)
Yeah, this would be very nice... I am not able to make something like this... but I've mentioned it quite a few times, and I think it's on the TODO list.
Mitjitsu wrote:
I don't like the idea of lowering criteria (even though I personally think I should have the skilled player ranking), the ones who definitley should have that rank or better do have it. I'd be more in favour of adding or changing criteria, maybe taking into account effort or commitent taken in specific movies i.e. number of re-records, re-records per movie length, length of movie.
I know very well what you mean, and to sort of compensate for this, higher rated movies are weighted a lot higher than lower rated movies (a TAS with a 10 counts as about 5.5 TASes that have a 5). As Derakon mentions, rerecord count can easily be edited, or bots used. It's often a nice indication, but can't be used here I'm afraid.
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There are no codes or passwords to start at the hardest world? I assume you stopped input after the small world because an ending was triggered and it would be too repetitive/long if all worlds were included?
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We are obviously a very, very long way from completing the TAS. However, since we and probably everyone wants this 100% TAS to include the extra levels, the endpoint of the TAS is a bit problematic.
It is problematic because 100% completion of all regular levels of a world unlocks the extra level of that world, so to unlock 6-E we need to complete 6-8, which triggers the credits. While these can be skipped, completing all extra levels does not trigger credits...
A previous discussion on this can be found here.
These are the options (A possible reason for this option will be listed in italics):
After defeating the final boss, we can:
1) Use start+select to exit the level. 6-8 will be listed as 100% completed and the extra level is available (moves on fast to the extra levels without breaking up the gameplay, no fastforwarding or seeking to the extra levels needed)
2) Let all credits roll and reset the game after the credits (possibly (depending what other option is picked) the only way to include the credits in the TAS)
Concerning the order of the extra levels:
1)) Complete the extra levels in the order 1-E, 2-E...6-E (not as confusing as a random order)
2)) Complete the extra levels in a random order (might be faster than a regular order, after leaving 6-8 you end up on the world 6 level select screen)
What to do after completing the last extra level:
1))) Stop input at the final goal ring (score talies to 100% (as in all levels) and happy music)
2))) After the level, press the score button at the level select screen (flips over all levels to show that 100% of the levels is completed)
3))) Reset the game and end after skipping the intro (this leaves the game as the yoshi island animation, which will be at dark, as 6-8 was completed, it also shows 6 stars at the game file for the 6 extra levels that have been completed at 100%)
4))) Redo 6-8 (This option will redo level 6-8, which includes redoing a long autoscroller and the final boss, after the final boss is defeated the credits will roll)
We'd like to know what you think is the best way to end the TAS. Suggestions for endings we didn't think of are of course also welcome.
We plan to do all extra levels after 6-8 (so not in between worlds) for several reasons, which is why doing them in between levels wasn't listed as an option.
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Maybe you can also save frames at the boss... I think my wip was about 3 frames faster (probably less lag at the end of the fight) than the wip you recently uploaded.
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Very nice! I wouldn't have thought my starman level could be improved this much (51 frames at the end). Cool new strategy in the spike room... I did consider going over the spikes, but going all the way over them was slower, I tested something like this, but didn't work out.
Glad to see you working on this again, keep it up :)
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DrJones wrote:
What is the reason for the Darkwing Duck having a star? I'm not saying it doesn't deserve it, but I can't see the reason either. Maybe it's because I haven't played the game.
It got a good amount of votes in favor of a star along with a couple of other NES games. For the time being, that one was picked, but it will now be removed in favor of another TAS. I think people voted in favor of it because it was quite fast paced, the character moved to the music, and wasn't part of a big gaming series.
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Raiscan wrote:
Why would a newcomer watch a movie of a game they've never played (or even heard of) before?
Because it's on a list on the frontpage titled "recommended movies".
I personally don't think we can't have confusing movies on the list, but maybe a limited amount of them. I also saw the new Chrono Trigger movie was recently suggested twice... maybe that can take Kings Bounty's star for the time being for completing a game way faster than intended?
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It obviously depends on the game, and in some games (like tetris) the score really is maxed out. In this case, "maxium score" would indeed be suitable. In the Wetrix movie however, the goal is to reach as much points as possible, and the score isn't maxed out... to just say "maxium score" would be like saying the movie is perfect. This is why I think it would be good to change "maximum kills" to "aims for maxium kills", and not changing "aims for maximum score".
I agree that for Pacifist "aims for minimal kills" is more consistent.
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Why does it say "uses hardest difficulty"? How is this difficulty particularly used? Was there something wrong with the old "plays at hardest difficulty?
