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Blazephlozard wrote:
Hmm, alright, perhaps I'll make a copy of the hole 10 R+0 that either adds an I at the start, or if first piece is I, replace that with two L's. (Automatically through code)
Taking the I-spin into consideration (as well as L-1's that begin with an I on column 5), I think I'd just want to include the 5th line in L-1 too.
Sounds workable, looking forward to see true power of brute force magic!
Btw only two J's at right branch can be used, not two L. Foundation with two L's is possible only if top of tree has 4 blocks which is extremely rare. Normal tree with 3 blocks at top can not alow use two L's.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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Blazephlozard wrote:
Hmm, I think I'm a bit confused about the start, at least as far as your "L-1" builds go. If we're filling in 5 lines instead of 4 then, do they all require two additional I pieces in the fifth line?
Indeed simplest way to fill that extra layer is to use two additional "I"-pieces.
For left branch is always "I"-piece at bottom. And special "L-1 subgroup" builds above it (or together with it if I-spin was used).
Right branch slightly more complexity.
First option for right branch can be also "I"-piece at bottom. In this case above need to build standart "R+0 subgroup" for hole#10 above it.
Second option for right branch is to use two "J"-pieces at bottom. In this case above it need to build 3x4 square. (I used this option in my test attempt for first knee.)
And at last third option for right branch available only in case if top of Tree has not 3 but 4 flat blocks - is possible to use more exotic builds.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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Blazephlozard wrote:
Do we want to try to brute force the initial stack building at all? That part seems ok to do by hand but theoretically I could also test a list of usable piece orders for it too.
Tree#1 itself is easy enough to do by hands. Only requirements is to have 5 pieces with correct summary height (=15 blocks) and have flat top (at least 3 blocks = L, T, J, or I pieces).
Problems starts above tree. Need to fil one extra layer comparing to all other succeeding tetrises (all other 16 blocks height) so there are some additional opportunities. For exampe right branch can be done not only by "I" but also by "J"-"J". Or even more exotic builds if top is 4 flat block. Left branch is special L-1 subgroup. And do not forget about special spins.
But main difficulty with first tertris is that need to check many different starting RNG to find best start. If be exact not only first tetris important, but whole first knee (when 3 3-tetrises burned). At this point we be able to properly compare how many frames was saved above old TAS and move forward to the next knee.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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Blazephlozard wrote:
I should have no problems with combining every possible sequence of L0 and R1 lists, and L1 and R0, for each hole, once they're made.
Great. I was worried that it can be problematic.
Blazephlozard wrote:
And I do not know just how lengthy the process will be when there's that many permutations. But since this method isn't an in-game simulation (isn't bound by advancing frames), I don't think it will take too long. This current one-permutation test takes less than a second.
If i counted combinatoric correctly there are possible 9!/(4!*5!)=126 unique completion ways for each pair of Right + Left sides cases. So for example for central hole 13*39*126 + 24*12*126 = 100 170 cases. Probably about over 99.9+% of these cases will be duplicates. I guess after removal of duplicates only few hunderds trully unique cases will left (and even less than it for other holes). Not too big number to became big problem to calculate all permutations. Well, in worst case i can run long simulations at nights :)
Blazephlozard wrote:
I'm not sure I fully understand what your one "R+1b" fits into.
Pair to this odd R+1b single case for hole#10 are these L+0 cases.
Blazephlozard wrote:
Well, since the piece RNG is generally sequential, I'm not if such a major frame difference will be possible.
In old TAS average time for 3-tetris was 277.3 frames. With minimum of 268 frames and maximum of 296 frames. So some fluctuations of bad/good RNG happens even for central hole.
Other holes has less available cases so i expect they can have even wider fluctuations. And may be opportunity to use 2nd place or 3rd place branching paths can be useful sometimes. At least it will be worth to try in case if we will meet really bad RNG with too long delays.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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Great news! Your brute forcer looks really cool and promising. Such tool is exactly what we needed to optimise new TAS!
Now to use full potential of BF need somehow to transform "Left" and "Right" sides sequences lists into one complete "United" list for each hole. And then feed that data to BF algorithm.
Some troubles to apply BF can be only during building trees#1 and #2 since search space is not so trivial. But this problem is solvable.
Blazephlozard wrote:
And I'm still unsure if I should try to code a way to do the inputs automatically. It'd probably save time in the long run...
To have inputs automatically can be very useful. In this case we be able to apply even deeper optimisation methods.
Recurrent multi-tetris optimisation:
It would be possible to try minimize average delay for several tetrises by better conjunction between them.
For example if for one tetris delay is small 10 frames, but delay for next one is long 37 frames. 10+37=47.
We can check second best option 26 delay for first tetris and look what delay for next tetris it can be like 13. So 26+13=39 summay delay is lower = better.
And so on for each tetris conjunction. Or even minimize delay for several tetrises D_min(D1+D2+D3+Dn).
Well of course we can try to do the same without inputs automatically too, but to do such recurrent multi-tetris optimisation by hands many many times in row be tedious.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
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Quite entertaining TAS! Damage boots is very cool indeed. Yes vote.
Arc wrote:
Even with Flash on the later stages, I could maybe get 1 red potion with minimal delay, which would maybe (or maybe not) be worth one extra boost... but even if that's so, it's unknown how that would change enemy spawns and boosts in the future (they could change for the worse).
Why only 1 extra Red Potion is maximum, what obstacle to receive more than one? Not enough mana for Flash or what?
And can enemy spawns can change for the better or currently enemy pattern is perfect?
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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WST wrote:
McBobX wrote:
Imagine another TAS improving this one by a lot of time, haha!!! Good job though!!
Actually, it’s not hard to imagine for any Sonic TASer.
I believe that it is true for many other games too, if to dig deep most of published movies can be improved. But most of other games not have such great TASers community as Sonic games to regulary find new and new improvements.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Note: It the same list of cases as part of L+1 list for hole#10 where "L" piece was used at the end.
---
2)While i searched packing sequences for central hole i suddenly discovered one new possible configuration for right side of hole#10.
R+1b:
I-J-S-O
Pair to this single R+1b case for hole#10 is list of L+0 cases for central hole#6 (that finished with "J" pieces at end).
So my observation that only two tetromino can be used at end for each hole turn out to be incorrect. In reality for some holes particularly for hole#10 is possible to use all three "long" tetromino "I", "L" and "J" to burn 3-tetris!
---
3)I thought about your recent question once again and made some testing that show that central hole is definitely the best, indeed central hole has many cases at both sides while all other holes has limited amout of case for one sides.
So hole#6 is supreme choice and should be used as often as possble. Also building Tree#2 (between 4th and 5th knee) turn to important factor. It not handy to use holes#2-5 for first four knee becuse Tree#2 can became obstracle to burning.
In other words most optimal game plan for TAS is should to be like this:
Tree#1
1st knee - hole#10
2nd knee - hole#6
3rd knee - hole#7-10
4th knee - hole#6
Tree#2
5th knee - hole#6
6th knee - hole#2-5 or 7-10
7th knee - hole#2-5 or 7-10 but not equal with 6th knee hole
8th knee - hole#6
Transition
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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Olympic Committee Guidelines wrote:
As athletes, we are passionate about our sportsand achieving our sporting performance goals. For each and every one of us, that passion continues into everyday life, where we advocate for change on issues of great importance to us and our world. That desire to drive change can naturally make it very tempting to use the platform of an appearance at the Olympic Games to make our point. However, all of us are here at the Olympic Games because, one day, we dreamt of being an Olympian, and maybe even an Olympic champion. The unique nature of the Olympic Games enables athletes from all over the world to come together in peace and harmony. We believe that the example we set by competing with the world’s best while living in harmony in the Olympic Village is a uniquely positive message to send to anincreasingly dividedworld. This is why it is important, on both a personal and a global level, that we keep the venues, the Olympic Village and the podium neutral and free from any form of political, religious or ethnic demonstrations.
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Fully agreed with Bisqwit. TASVideos submissions is not right place for political, religious or other non-game related statements.
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Good question.
For chessboard build is only important to change hole after each knee (1 knee = when growing hole is became 4 lines deep). It is completely insignificant which holes will be used for each knee excluding very first which should be strictly hole#10. Central hole has most balanced right and left sides so i guess it is can have the most potential piece orders as well. But it is just assumtion. I am not sure about it. To answer definitely we need to figured out lists of piece orders for all nine holes. And even better to make tests with different holes and compare average times between tetris for each hole.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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Blazephlozard wrote:
So, you did verify all these are actually possible at Level 18 speed to build? (Some only with Pausing probably.)
Yes i verified that all these cases are constructible at level 18 speed. Perhaps you can find yet a few new cases, especially in L+1 subgroup. Meanwhile i will start slowly aggregate next lists of valid piece sequences for central hole.
Blazephlozard wrote:
And a R+0 has to go with L+1, and vice versa. I see... Evidently it's extremely convenient for the +1 to be on the final I piece in this hole setup.
True R+0 has to go with L+1, and vice versa. L-1 for very first 3-tetris is also has go with R+0.
Indeed a lot of "I"-pieces required for many cases. It is defenitely the most useful piece.
Blazephlozard wrote:
I'll try and get something going some time soon, my life is very odd at the moment...
There are no reasons to hurry. Good TAS required time. Better to spent another month or few at testing and theory than to complete whole thing within week but with unnecessary flaws. Highest quality is main priority.
Blazephlozard wrote:
By the way, I'm not really down with the "obsolete the playaround" part, it's a bit odd to combine the two goals for one, and also playaround TASes in general don't feel like something that should be obsoleted. They are, often literally, art.
Ok, we can do not touch playaround if you don't want to do so. I do not insist.
Although i see nothing bad if new more entertainment playaround TAS will obsoleted old playaround TAS. Art can beat art. Many playaround TASes were obsoleted, for example Mortal Kombat II: http://tasvideos.org/702M.html
For NES Tetris main benefit of combining both goals instead of doing separate new TAS for playaround is that after completing fastest 999999 we will be much closer to level 29 when speed is increased twice.
In any case at first we need to complete fastest 999999 part. Lets discuss playaround after.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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Blazephlozard wrote:
Ah, that's interesting, that because of the shift in the fourth row's gap, an I block is now a valid choice for doing a triple-tetris. Does the top block actually end up left over? Normally any blocks off the top cease to exist once the piece is placed, but I could see this triple-tetris being a special case.
All blocks that above the top are disappear. That upper part of I-piece at the end is not an exception.
Four complete layers is 10 tetrominoes = 40 blocks but we need to build extra hole at 4th layer so it is only 39 blocks need to be used it means for each triple tetris one block always* must disappear.
*There are also two special cases after Tree#1 and after Tree#2 when enough space to place all 10 tetrominoes and build hole at 4th layer without piece-cutting.
Interesting observation is that for holes at right side (#7-10) last piece to burn 3-tetris can be "I" or "L".
For holes at left side (#2-5) it is "I" or "J".
For the most balanced central hole (#6) it is "J" and "L".
For leftmost hole (#1) at level 18 speed 3-tetris is impossible to build.
Blazephlozard wrote:
Actually putting the blocks in will be annoying
I suspect it will be even more annoying because there are some unique movements when already placed tetrominoes are obstacle or/and when pausing extra movement trick is used.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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Extra points from pressing down is completely irrelevant for current strategy. We need to do the same amount of tetrises as old TAS. (Gap for the next usefull score is too big, even no chance to try use triple at the end instead of tetris.)
Tomorrow i will post lists of valid piece cases sequences for hole#10.
I classificated cases for 4 subgroups "L+1", "L+0", "R+1", "R+0". L and R means left and right sides, +1 mean 1 block above top, +0 mean 0 block above top.
Currently i keep them as simple text format and picture for each case, here for example one of cases from L+1 subgroup (and two alternative packing orders for same shape):
I-J-Z-J-I-I
I-J-I-Z-J-I
I-J-Z-I-J-I
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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Blazephlozard wrote:
It would be nice to get access to those lists of "left side" and "right side" valid piece orders as a base. I wonder how many more could be found.
Ok. In next few days i will try to create such lists of valid piece orders for left and right sides for hole#10.
Then you will try to extend my lists.
Later we repeat these procedure for hole#6. And at last when we will choose what third hole will be used we will need to repeat this work once again.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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Here approach that was used in old TAS according to submission text:
Acmlm wrote:
I made this easier by bruteforcing again!
Overall, it went like this:
Find all possible ways to fit blocks into each side (or as many as I can, I got a few dozen)
Get the player input for each of them (and how many frames it takes to place each block)
Also get the input to delay the next block by any amount of frames (up to about 10, and pausing when left+right+down isn't enough)
Using the above, code the bruteforcer in C, and use it for a (mostly) easy ride to level 19 and above
And the bruteforcing: (instant, too)
Go through each left/right block sequence (for a single tetris), and each way to alternate sides
For each of them, find how long it'd take to manipulate and place all blocks
Keep the shortest one, display it and generate .fm2 data to copy-paste into the run
It would be really nice to re-create something similar to this.
Blazephlozard wrote:
I'm not sure just how long a list of valid piece orders would be though (especially since, with your chessboard build, if i'm understanding it right, each of the 10 different spots we could place our hole on the fourth row would be a totally different set of usable piece orders).
For chessboard build only 3* types of holes would be enough.
Rightmost hole (10).
Central hole (6)
And yet one hole (X). That third alternative hole can be in any other place excluding leftmost.
*Actually even 2 types of holes is enough (6&10) but it would be unhandy to play after 19-speed transition with hole#10 on top. So alternative hole is used to change parity and have hole#6 at top after transition.
So we need to have only 3 sets of usable piece orders.
For Central hole we can use data for piece orders from old TAS (+ add few new cases with using EM trick).
For Rightmost hole and Alternative hole it would be not too hard to make similar set-lists.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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NES Tetris is great game, so i think it deserved to have great TAS. Not just with best strategy but also with best tactic.
Unfortunately my own skills is not enough to optimise tactic in this TAS as good as it can be done.
Main problem with optimisation of tactics is that each tetris (3- or 4- lines) as individual puzzle can be solved in many multiple ways. How to choose the fastest solution among these opportunities!?
It is pure RNG hell. I do not have brutforce tools or something equally powerfull. So i need help with execution.
If someone interested in this project and have enough skills to be helpfull your are welcome to join "Mode A" team.
---
Here rough test of first knee of my new strat (first three 3-lines tetris).
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/63971629207143480
Currently about 20 frames ahead published TAS. As i said my tactics optimisation is far from perfect, for sure it can be done faster. I am waiting volontaires.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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Hello comrades!
The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. It is time to make new Tetris TAS.
I developed new strategy for fastest 999999 points TAS. Here some details regarding improvements:
FT - First Tetris
For first tetris we need to build shape equivalent to this:
This shape uses 17 pieces in total. Acmlm used 18 pieces to reach his first tetris in published TAS. Estimated improvement about 25-30 frames.
"Tree#1" must have 15 blocks high and have 3 blocks flat top (it is T, L, or J tetraminos.) At the right branch two blocks at rightmost down corner must be empty. Last piece to burn tetris is L.
SRNG - Starting RNG
It is possible to try take extra advantage of using different starting RNG if to start at other frames. If find lucky starting RNG maybe some additional frames can be saved. Estimated improvement about 0-10 frames.
CH18/CH19 - Chessboard build
Instead of doing one long hole is better to build chessboard with knee after each 4 layers.
It allow burn faster becouse of long "I" tetramino will travel for shorter distance to ground.
At level 18 speed "Chessboard build" can save 48 frames (8 + 16 + 24)
At level 19 speed "Chessboard build" can save 40 frames (7 + 13 + 20)
T3Skip - Tree#3 skip
Tree#3 can be skipped completely. It mean we need five full teramino less! So it will save about (25-30) * 5 = (125-150) frames.
To do so after transition we do not burn all field, instead of tree#3 is possible to use 12-lines ground.
HBB - High Build Bonus
Additional betefit of skipping Tree #3 is that possible to continue building immidetely after transition. See picture above. I dont estimate how much it will save, lets say about 10-20 frames.
EM - Extra movement
There is a pausing trick that allow to move teetramino to one extra block futher than expected normally.
This trick not used in previous TAS. Not sure will it save something or not. But at least we have more freedom for build.
EIE - End imput earlier
End of imput can be done as soon as last "I" tetramino is rorated. Estimated improvement about 65 frames.
Well, it is not pure improvement it is more alternative ending timing method. After reaching 999999 points Acmlm also reached top of screen to finish game faster. But i disagree this this decision, in my opinion shortest input time is universal goal for all TAS. And so Tetris should not be an exception of this rule.
EP - Ending problems
Besides pros, my new strategy has one serious difficulty at the very end.
For perect ending we need 4 long pieces "I-I-I-I" in row at very end. It is extrimly difficult to achive.
EP0 - I think if re-solve last segment many times sooner or later right RNG with 4 "I" at the end can be found.
For case if it would be impossible (or too long) to get 4 "I" there are two possibility:
EP1 - It possible to waste one piece like I-X-I-I-I or I-I-X-I-I or I-I-I-X-I
But i strongly not like idea of wasting piece. EP1-solution is not an option for good TAS.
EP2 - To avoid wasting piece there is alternative "smart end" by using incomplete upper tetris: it require only long pieces "I-I-I" in row.
For example like this. I-O-O-I-I-I. Or something similar. It slower than 4 "I" but 3 "I" seems more or less possible to achive.
Estimated worsening for EP1/2 about 25-50 frames.
Summary:
IMP = FT + SRNG + CH18 + T3Skip + HBB + CH19 + EM* + EIE - EP
(25-30) + (0-10) + 48 + (125-150) + (10-20) + 0* + 40 + 65 - (0/25-50) = 263-373 frames can be saved +/- something.
Playaround
I also think that would be nice to improve not only "fastest 999999" but also "playaround" and beat both remaining TASes at the same time.
To do so after completing "fastest 999999" with improvement we will dont stop here. No! Instead we start doing bonus "playaround" and play additional 2-3 minutes. For playaround my idea is to draw pixel art.
Pixelart1 -> Burn -> Pixelart2 -> Burn -> Pixelart3 -> Burn -> ...
Final product can be called "fastest 999999 + playaround" or simply "Mode A". But it too early to discuss. Since fastest 999999 is the hardest part.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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Это наверное не совсем то что надо, но как вариант можешь попробовать убрать галку "Maintain aspect ratio" в настройках дисплея и растягивать экран как хочется.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
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Amazing improvements! Especially incredible skip in Cave of Wonders.
Great work!
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
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Joined: 11/26/2011
Posts: 655
Location: RU
Great job Blazephlozard!
Since you completely redid Baxter's part now you are became main author for this submission.
I made small cosmetic changes for new improvement, replaced pausing into slowdown were it was possible and also added epileptic piece rotations for additional entertainment.
Here new encode:
Link to video
Here movie file:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/63710396427040876
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Blazephlozard wrote:
I can't promise I'd want to commit to any huge Nintendo Tetris project, since even this short category doesn't feel too fun...
Acmlm also do not answered my invitation.
Sad to cancel such great project. But i not capable to it pull it alone.
Our “Mode A” potentially had could become legendary TAS...
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1442)
Joined: 11/26/2011
Posts: 655
Location: RU
Fight with Goro is keystone of this TAS. It significantly more important than all other fights.
If Goro can be defeated quickly by other character (not Kano) it can be worth to use this character from beginning even if ALL other fights be systematically slower. It can be decicive factor for character choice.
So my questions: how good Goro fight was researched? Did you tested all other characters against him?
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1442)
Joined: 11/26/2011
Posts: 655
Location: RU
Hi Blazephlozard!
A few days has past, are there any news regarding your attempt to improve "Mode B"?
By the way i added your nickname into "Extra edit privileges" so now you can edit submission text and add info about your improvement and any other comments.
---
Now about our humble plans to conquer "fastest 999999" and beyond.
What do you think about idea to improve not only "fastest 999999" but also "playaround" and beat both remaining TASes at the same time?
[1596] NES Tetris "maximum score" by Acmlm in 03:11.78[1502] NES Tetris "playaround" by Baxter in 02:17.36
To do so after completing "fastest 999999" with improvement we will dont stop here. No! Instead we start doing bonus "playaround" and play additional 2-3 minutes. Regarding playaround i think that to draw pixel art will be more entertainment to watch than regular pattern which Baxter used in his current "playaround" TAS. Also if we will start second phase of TAS after reaching 999999 points at level 23 we be very close to level 29 aka "kill screen" which will give us addition benefit becouse with insane speed our playaround will becomeeven more impressive. Final product can be called "fastest 999999 + playaround" or simply "Mode A".
Dare you jump with me into the rabbit hole and try to create the best Tetris TAS in the universe?
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Right branch slightly more complexity.
First option for right branch can be also "I"-piece at bottom. In this case above need to build standart "R+0 subgroup" for hole#10 above it.
Second option for right branch is to use two "J"-pieces at bottom. In this case above it need to build 3x4 square. (I used this option in my test attempt for first knee.)
And at last third option for right branch available only in case if top of Tree has not 3 but 4 flat blocks - is possible to use more exotic builds.
This shape uses 17 pieces in total. Acmlm used 18 pieces to reach his first tetris in published TAS. Estimated improvement about 25-30 frames.
"Tree#1" must have 15 blocks high and have 3 blocks flat top (it is T, L, or J tetraminos.) At the right branch two blocks at rightmost down corner must be empty. Last piece to burn tetris is L.
SRNG - Starting RNG
It is possible to try take extra advantage of using different starting RNG if to start at other frames. If find lucky starting RNG maybe some additional frames can be saved. Estimated improvement about 0-10 frames.
CH18/CH19 - Chessboard build
Instead of doing one long hole is better to build chessboard with knee after each 4 layers.
It allow burn faster becouse of long "I" tetramino will travel for shorter distance to ground.
At level 18 speed "Chessboard build" can save 48 frames (8 + 16 + 24)
At level 19 speed "Chessboard build" can save 40 frames (7 + 13 + 20)
T3Skip - Tree#3 skip
Tree#3 can be skipped completely. It mean we need five full teramino less! So it will save about (25-30) * 5 = (125-150) frames.
To do so after transition we do not burn all field, instead of tree#3 is possible to use 12-lines ground.
HBB - High Build Bonus
Additional betefit of skipping Tree #3 is that possible to continue building immidetely after transition. See picture above. I dont estimate how much it will save, lets say about 10-20 frames.
EM - Extra movement
There is a pausing trick that allow to move teetramino to one extra block futher than expected normally.
This trick not used in previous TAS. Not sure will it save something or not. But at least we have more freedom for build.
EIE - End imput earlier
End of imput can be done as soon as last "I" tetramino is rorated. Estimated improvement about 65 frames.
Well, it is not pure improvement it is more alternative ending timing method. After reaching 999999 points Acmlm also reached top of screen to finish game faster. But i disagree this this decision, in my opinion shortest input time is universal goal for all TAS. And so Tetris should not be an exception of this rule.
EP - Ending problems
Besides pros, my new strategy has one serious difficulty at the very end.
For perect ending we need 4 long pieces "I-I-I-I" in row at very end. It is extrimly difficult to achive.
EP0 - I think if re-solve last segment many times sooner or later right RNG with 4 "I" at the end can be found.
For case if it would be impossible (or too long) to get 4 "I" there are two possibility:
EP1 - It possible to waste one piece like I-X-I-I-I or I-I-X-I-I or I-I-I-X-I
But i strongly not like idea of wasting piece. EP1-solution is not an option for good TAS.
EP2 - To avoid wasting piece there is alternative "smart end" by using incomplete upper tetris: it require only long pieces "I-I-I" in row.
For example like this. I-O-O-I-I-I. Or something similar. It slower than 4 "I" but 3 "I" seems more or less possible to achive.
Estimated worsening for EP1/2 about 25-50 frames.
Summary:
IMP = FT + SRNG + CH18 + T3Skip + HBB + CH19 + EM* + EIE - EP
(25-30) + (0-10) + 48 + (125-150) + (10-20) + 0* + 40 + 65 - (0/25-50) = 263-373 frames can be saved +/- something.
Playaround
I also think that would be nice to improve not only "fastest 999999" but also "playaround" and beat both remaining TASes at the same time.
To do so after completing "fastest 999999" with improvement we will dont stop here. No! Instead we start doing bonus "playaround" and play additional 2-3 minutes. For playaround my idea is to draw pixel art.
Pixelart1 -> Burn -> Pixelart2 -> Burn -> Pixelart3 -> Burn -> ...
Final product can be called "fastest 999999 + playaround" or simply "Mode A". But it too early to discuss. Since fastest 999999 is the hardest part.