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Alyosha
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Well, the benefits you are getting from SRAM come from previously entered levels. To me this seems counter to the goal.
Alyosha
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I look forward to you glitch compilation video.
Alyosha
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How much does it cost not being able to press start? I don't really like using SRAM here, seems to clash with the other stringent restrictions, but whatever.
Alyosha
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Link to video Link to video Here are both versions of Solstice. They needed a little resyncing and don't work directly from FCEUX. Another timing sensitive game. Additionally here is Ironsword which does work directly: Link to video
Alyosha
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Cool find, what made you think to try that?
Post subject: Re: TASSS - Tool-Assisted Speedrunning and Superplay Science
Alyosha
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This is just my opinion, you can of course do what you want, but after browsing your repo. this seems too broad to be useful. In particular:
MESHUGGAH wrote:
- I need to be sure every potential topic are under my radar, before I start expanding the currently started investigations
This isn't practical. I'm seeing more recently that TASing of any modern'ish game is more attached to that game's community then to here (just look at how dead most threads are.) This makes sense with the advent of discord and how complicated newer games are. These communities are pretty independent and can be highly technically competent, ex. Paper Mario Stop and Swap was just performed live at SGDQ 2021 a few days ago, a feat rivaling any TAS ACE run. I don't think you can realistically capture even a substantial part of the TAS works that's happening out there and all the unique tools and ideas people are using. Just focusing on TASvideos, our knowledge base is mostly there for common topics (ex how to use TAStudo etc.) just a bit scattered about. Could use some organizing, but honestly very little has changed over the last few years with the exception of LibTAS, so I'm not sure you'd be adding much. Again just my opinion, but maybe something useful/interesting that can be done would be to organize a science style journal where you ask for / help develop articles from people doing technical / sciencey TAS work? For example there is a run on the workbench right now #7162: Jigwally's GB Daedalian Opus in 10:30.63 where an article describing the techniques used with maybe some links to real journal articles about the topic would be a good read.
Alyosha
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Bigbass wrote:
When you have time, could you please post in the Publication Maintenance thread, with all of your recent verification videos (whose publications haven't been updated yet), so we can get that stuff updated.
I did, directly above you, but note that I only included runs where the inputs actually play out the same. Donkey Kong, Roger Rabbit and Excite Bike aren't really the same so I didn't include them.
Alyosha
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Doing a few more test runs as I gear up to do DMC work. Here is Excite bike: Link to video It needed some minor resyncing to account for different cpu rng, but all the times are the same. This game seems to have about the same sync probability as Donkey Kong (1/4). It would be pretty cool if all the starred NES runs could get console verifications. Excite Bike, Bionic Commando, and Battletoads are now doable, so this leaves: [2421] NES Battle City "2 players" by NhatNM in 13:00.35 [4323] NES Battletoads & Double Dragon: The Ultimate Team "2 players" by Lobsterzelda & feos in 16:27.56 [4342] NES Castlevania by Challenger in 10:18.91 [1546] NES Gimmick! "100%" by Aglar & Hotarubi in 07:44.45 [4131] NES Mega Man by Shinryuu, pirohiko, Maru & finalfighter in 09:45.35 [4410] NES Mega Man 2 by Shinryuu in 23:38.98 [3595] NES Rockman 4 Minus Infinity "all items" by Baddap1 in 34:43.72 [3726] NES Super C "2 players" by Soig in 11:25.49 I don't believe any of the mega man games use DMC channel, so they would probably work if re-synced in NESHawk. Battletoads and Double Dragon would probably work if resynced as well assuming it uses the same engine as batteltoads (no DMC channel.) Not sure about the others.
Alyosha
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A few updates / thoughts: NES: Power up timing and state is pretty much resolved now. It turns out NESDev folks had already worked out DMC state last year, so that was cool. I just need to do a couple hardware tests now to sort out the last couple details. I also tried matching up to Mesen, and it looks like Mesen state should be -1 cycle from NESHawk. When I use that state in NESHawk I do get runs that sync on console (with lower probability, about 50% less likely then the state I have now, but could be console dependent) but those same movies then do not sync in Mesen. Some memory access timings had speculatively been changed in 0.9.9, so they probably just need to be changed back. Anyway, there aren't many obstacles left for NES , probably by the end of the year most runs will be working on console. SNES: BSNES v115 was unexpectedly added to BizHawk recently, hopefully someone can try the 2 versions of the SOS submission, #7152: Samsara's SNES SOS in 04:34.08 . They may still both desync, but if v115 works where v78 doesn't, that might be a big deal for seeing more working SNES runs. GBA: I had run across this GBA emulator recently that seems to do things at a finer level of timing detail then mGBA: https://github.com/fleroviux/NanoBoyAdvance . A lot of necessary timing tests haven't even been written yet, so it probably doesn't matter much right now, but maybe worth keeping an eye on. I'm not sure what to focus on next once the remaining NES issues are sorted out. I'm open to suggestions, there's so much to do it's hard to decide where to start.
Alyosha
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I have restored functionality to Basic Bot (a tool that can be used to random guess check small sections of a TAS) in dev builds. It's somewhat simpler to use then a lua script for simple tasks, and there was a video tutorial made for it by CoolHandMike: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21184
Alyosha
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That super high jump is a really cool trick, I also liked the clock punching explanation, and nice detective work on the console crashing, yes vote.
Alyosha
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Link to video I console verified the Battletoads game end glitch run. I also did the same for a resync ( http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/71811602852747684) of the one player warpless run, but that run needs an update so I won't bother making a video of it. So that's all the current Battletoads runs console verified.
Alyosha
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Samsara wrote:
Uh, false alarm, I was able to resync the run near perfectly to standard BSNES while also improving the pipe room. I've updated the submission file and text to account for this. Judgement may continue.
Is there a desync in the v115 core? If so please report the details here: https://github.com/TASVideos/BizHawk/issues/2754
Alyosha
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I've made a lot of progress in understanding and emulating the DMC channel, but unfortunately DMC games still don't sync. I don't think I can make further progress without a dev. cart, I need to see the results of count_errors.nes in order to be able to tell what direction I need to shift things. In the mean time there are a few other loose ends I'll be trying to tie up. DMC games probably won't be syncing for 2.6.3, but hopefully for 2.6.4 I'll have them working, it's really close.
Alyosha
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Bigbass wrote:
Alyosha wrote:
The streemerz runs now desync on dev build, which is promising, but I don't yet have a dev cart to try them on console, so moving on to DMC testing for now.
Where can I get this dev build? (nevermind, tikevin got me a link) I can try dumping and test on console.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/72428431403912808 Here is a movie file that syncs in dev build (slower then published run since it's just a rough resync.) I think probability of it working from a reset is low (like if you are using a power pak or similar) but it doesn't hurt to try.
Alyosha
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The streemerz runs now desync on dev build, which is promising, but I don't yet have a dev cart to try them on console, so moving on to DMC testing for now. Trying test runs with Ninja Turtles and Tiny Toon Adventures gives promising results, consistent desyncs indicating DMC start up state is consistent, I just need to find it and verify correctness of DMC channel emulation. This is also hindered by not having a dev cart, so progress may be slow. At least power up timing should be done now.
Alyosha
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TiKevin83 wrote:
I implemented 41 TAS verifications as a test suite for Gambatte Speedrun, the goal being to note any deficiencies outstanding in Gambatte Speedrun and to encourage TAS verification as part of an emulator's automated test procedures in general. https://tikevin83.github.io/gsr-automation-site/
That's pretty cool! Clever to feed back in the GBI inputs. I wonder what happened to Oddworld II though? Any idea where it started breaking? EDIT: looks like the movie still works in dev build (after adjusting for the new power up timing.)
Alyosha
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Well it seems it was all just a coincidence. I found another power up arrangement this time with VBL false where all the console verified runs still sync but now paper boy now powers up as expected. The new settings are VBL = false, ofst = 4, even_odd = true. The mystery house arrangement that still appears on console occasionally is still inexplicable, but that's a puzzle for another time.
Alyosha
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It seems power on timing issues aren't entirely solved yet. Paperboy is a game that relies on initial timing to seed house RNG, but somehow on console I never see the arrangement that would result from VBL flag being on, despite many, many tests, which is really strange. I made a post about it looking for advice over at NESdev: http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&p=274594#p274594 I don't think it's a coincidence that all these timing sensitive TASes suddenly work with the new state I have now, so there must be something going on. Paperboy is unusual in that it doesn't sample $2002 until about 800 cycles into the game, so maybe the flag is pulled down by then, it's just a guess but I might have to just implement it for now so that paperboy has a realistic startup house state. I really need a dev cart to test stuff like this. Also Paperboy is the only TAS I try that requires 3 blank frames to get things syncing, every other game requires 1, so another indicator that something is up.
Alyosha
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Yes resyncing was necessary, as I get organized I am putting files here: https://github.com/alyosha-tas/NES_replay_files I mean things that got sent to lua scripts were slightly wrong (lag detection, input poll event), actual execution didn't change at all (except right now with the start up state update, but that doesn't matter for bionic commando.) Bionic Commando occasionally encounters situations where input is polled, but then not read because something else interrupts it. Before fixing things up this would result in bad lag detection and mess up the dump. Additionally, the all items run runs into a case where input is polled twice in one frame (it only happens once in the entire run!) and this case was missed by the frame dump script, so it needs the poll dump script. Link to video
Alyosha
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The state is updated with the -4 value since it has the nice bonus of the Battletoads runs still working. I think the next big thing to focus testing on is the timing of the DMC glitch. Hopefully it's not random. Figuring this out will allow runs for games like Ninja Turtles. I also need to find some other MMC3 games that don't use DMC to have more confidence that Nightshade wasn't just a fluke,
Alyosha
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http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/72385648792277409 Here is a console verified run that will work in dev build or 2.6.3 when it is released. It gets all the items in the right places, but I didn't put much effort into manipulation after that point so it ended up slower then the published run by ~100 frames. So, if anyone wants to use this to get a faster run that can be console verified feel free. EDIT: I found an improvement and submitted a new run.
Alyosha
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I have updated NEShawk's startup state to match console testing I have been doing. Now several more timing sensitive games console verify that didn't work before. Donkey Kong, Nightshade, Roger Rabbit all sync on console through full runs. I nice side effect of the state I chose (out of 3 more or less equally reasonable options) is that the runs of Battletoads still sync, with very minor adjustment for initial lag frames. I have console verified the current 2 player warps run to verify this, will post videos when I organize everything. I've also made some other small updates to how input is polled so that games like Bionic Commando which hit some edge cases now console verify as well. this game always gave trouble before, but the emulation was never wrong, only the communication between emulator and console. I'm very confident in the new state, and am hopeful many more games can be verified now, and maybe progress can be made on DMC timing (assuming it's not random.) As a final side note, the Streemerz runs, which have never worked on console, still work in the new state, that game is a real mystery! Link to video
Alyosha
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Patashu wrote:
Out of curiosity, is NES startup state the kind of thing that tends to be similar between different people's NESes or different, or do you only know about your own for now?
I only know about my own, but while there is probably some variation amongst individual units it's probably not by much. I have a standard front loader nes with G model ppu (common.) I expect these results to more or less hold for similar models maybe with slightly more or less overall likelyhood.The proposed state gives a result in read2004 of 8, which True reports as pretty common. The only caveat is that I would not necessarily expect this to apply to top leaders. It could be, but needs testing.